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Cont: The Biden Presidency Part II

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I imagine a lot of potential Democratic voters do exactly what you say, they don't show up on election day.

ETA: For better or worse, it's a two party system. Unless you chose to vote third party, or not participate altogether (a distinction without much difference), working within the Dem party is the only real option. There's tons of friction going on within the party as the more established centrists try to wield party power to keep more a growing progressive wing on the fringe.

Look at the current alternative...

I'm calling ********. If it's bad enough to not have anything positive to say, they never stay in power for more than a political cycle, they can never seem to get anything done, and the only reason people are voting for them are because they aren't Republicans, then just stop. That's it.

I don't have the same negativity towards the party. They got us checks, they're doing way more work to battle COVID, they're working on climate change in the facets they have available, and are at least trying to get some bills passed through the house. But if I felt the same way I see people saying they feel here, I sure as **** wouldn't be voting for a party I can't stand just because they aren't the other party I can't stand. Seems asinine to me.
 
I'm calling ********. If it's bad enough to not have anything positive to say, they never stay in power for more than a political cycle, they can never seem to get anything done, and the only reason people are voting for them are because they aren't Republicans, then just stop. That's it.



I don't have the same negativity towards the party. They got us checks, they're doing way more work to battle COVID, they're working on climate change in the facets they have available, and are at least trying to get some bills passed through the house. But if I felt the same way I see people saying they feel here, I sure as **** wouldn't be voting for a party I can't stand just because they aren't the other party I can't stand. Seems asinine to me.
I don't understand your comment. The party is on pace to get absolutely trounced in the midterms. The very lack of enthusiasm you warn of is happening in real time before our eyes.

How do you explain the turnout gap if not a disenchantment with do-nothing libs?
 
I don't understand your comment. The party is on pace to get absolutely trounced in the midterms. The very lack of enthusiasm you warn of is happening in real time before our eyes.

How do you explain the turnout gap if not a disenchantment with do-nothing libs?

I hope they do get trounced in the midterms, if I'm being honest. It's not like it would be anything new, it happens all of the time.

My question wasn't being asked to ALL voters. It's being asked to you guys. To the people here. Why would the people here vote for a Dem party that does absolutely nothing positive? Why even bother?
 
Libs willing to torpedo the half a loaf that is Biden's keystone legislative priority if there isn't a handout to the rich included
It's worth noting here that the left and right tend to use rather different definitions of "liberal" from each other. Righties think it means lefties, especially the most "extreme" ones. Lefties think it means people who usually vote for/with Democrats if they vote at all but aren't lefties, or at least not reliably; they might be what otherwise gets called "centrists" (conservatives who aren't extreme enough to be Republicans), or they might be mostly apathetic. So a sentence like the one I quoted is accurate with one definition and not the other.

With the absolute hate for Democrats, even within their own party, if you don't mind me asking. Why the **** do you vote for them?
Certainly during the Democrat primaries there was plenty of lecturing around here about the need to settle for anybody who's not a Republican, because (s)he's not a Republican. Some were, in fact, spectacularly hostile about it and full of an endless stream of false accusations & such for the rest of us who were willing to face reality. Some didn't come off my Ignore List for months after the election because their behavior at the time was such a close match to the standard stereotypical "conservative troll" we get around here.

And there are also certainly a significant number of voters who do as you seem to expect: in general, the further left democrats go, the more votes they get, and the further right they go, the fewer votes they get (despite claims from those I mentioned in the previous paragraph that it's the opposite).

Also, one tends to express more frustration/exasperation with those who seem at first like they might do something good or say they will or act like they will, and then don't, than with those who were pretty clear about being entirely on the wrong side all along. It's human nature. It's a response to betrayal, or the letdown/disappointment of having once had higher standards which they didn't meet.

But there is indeed a lot of verbal sloppiness about the current situation, generalizing the problems of a few to their whole party. The slash-&-burn that's been done to this bill was not done because the whole party wanted that; it was done to try to satisfy two people. All the rest but those two were ready to vote for something that would actually help significantly. Biden, Schumer, and Pelosi have done nothing to put any pressure on them & fight for it, and Biden persists in refusing to sign executive orders that would do the country any good, but that's those three, not the whole party.
 
But if I felt the same way I see people saying they feel here, I sure as **** wouldn't be voting for a party I can't stand just because they aren't the other party I can't stand. Seems asinine to me.



Except there's different reasons why people can't stand the Republicans vs. why they can't stand the Democrats.

The US has a real problem, because it's fundamentally better to support the party that gets nothing done, over the party that gets the wrong things done.

Sure, it would be great if there was a party that actually does the right things, but such a party does not exist in US politics at the moment.

The only solution I can see to this is to primary every Democrat who won't vote to do the right things, like Manchin. Yeah, you might lose, but I'd rather risk losing while trying to do the right thing than just give up.
 
I hope they do get trounced in the midterms, if I'm being honest. It's not like it would be anything new, it happens all of the time.

My question wasn't being asked to ALL voters. It's being asked to you guys. To the people here. Why would the people here vote for a Dem party that does absolutely nothing positive? Why even bother?

I've both voted Democratic and not, depending on the candidate, the office, and the broader political context. I don't know how to answer such a broad question.
 
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I'm calling ********. If it's bad enough to not have anything positive to say, they never stay in power for more than a political cycle, they can never seem to get anything done, and the only reason people are voting for them are because they aren't Republicans, then just stop. That's it.

I don't have the same negativity towards the party. They got us checks, they're doing way more work to battle COVID, they're working on climate change in the facets they have available, and are at least trying to get some bills passed through the house. But if I felt the same way I see people saying they feel here, I sure as **** wouldn't be voting for a party I can't stand just because they aren't the other party I can't stand. Seems asinine to me.

This is the United States. Our First Past the Post election system forces us to either vote for Party A, Party B, vote Third Party or stay home. Party A does nothing, Party B actively makes things worse, and the 2000 and 2016 elections showed pretty clearly that voting Third Party or staying home gets you Party B.

Voting for Party A is the best of the three choices.

It's not totally hopeless though. While the Dems seem to be locked in a cycle of running on popular Liberal policies, winning elections, rejecting those Liberal policies for the vapid nothingness of Centrism, getting kicked out of office in disgust, and then blaming Liberals for failing to support the party, progress does get made. (Gay marriage, healthcare, etc.)

I guess we are waiting for the Liberal Leader who will come forward, run on popular Liberal policies, and then actually do them. The odds of it happening under the current system are low, but the odds of it happening without us voting for Democrats is effectively zero.
 
I hope they do get trounced in the midterms, if I'm being honest. It's not like it would be anything new, it happens all of the time.

My question wasn't being asked to ALL voters. It's being asked to you guys. To the people here. Why would the people here vote for a Dem party that does absolutely nothing positive? Why even bother?

Huh? Why do you want them to get trounced? That’s basically asking for the Republicans to win. Are you sure you are a Democrat telling people not to vote for them? Comes across as suspicious to me.:confused:
 
At this pace, all the work Trumpists are doing to ensure they can steal the next election will be moot. The way I see it, Trump is just as likely to win it without working the refs, especially if Biden is the candidate. Republicans will be galvanized by Trump fever, the rage of having lost a "rigged" election in 2020, and whatever brew of fraudulent moral panics that exists at the time. Democrats will have just finished 4 years of reminding their voters why everyone hates them. the enthusiasm will clearly favor the Republicans and drive them to victory.
 
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Huh? Why do you want them to get trounced? That’s basically asking for the Republicans to win. Are you sure you are a Democrat telling people not to vote for them? Comes across as suspicious to me.:confused:

LoL you caught me. I'm secretly a Republican. My years upon years of posting here supporting things like gay marriage, immigration, gun control, etc. has just been a long con. I've been fooling everyone in hopes of flipping the tables a decade after I joined to get the Dems here to not vote in the 2022 midterm elections. :rolleyes:

The reason I want them to get trounced in the midterms is extremely simple. If they get trounced in the midterms, it gives 2 years of the GOP ******** before the general election in 2024. Where the inaction might be used to the Dems advantage...or I'm a secret Republican. You pick.
 
At this pace, all the work Trumpists are doing to ensure they can steal the next election will be moot. The way I see it, Trump is just as likely to win it without working the refs, especially if Biden is the candidate. Republicans will be galvanized by Trump fever, the rage of having lost a "rigged" election in 2020, and whatever brew of fraudulent moral panics that exists at the time. Democrats will have just finished 4 years of reminding their voters why everyone hates them. the enthusiasm will clearly favor the Republicans and drive them to victory.

Then, in that case, shouldn't the Republicans deserve to win? You say this all like it's a bad thing. That's how democracy works. If the Dems aren't doing anything, then get them out. No sense in having them in.

I think you're making a case for me to actually vote GOP. angrysoba might be right. I haven't heard such a great case to vote GOP as being made here.
 
Then, in that case, shouldn't the Republicans deserve to win? You say this all like it's a bad thing. That's how democracy works. If the Dems aren't doing anything, then get them out. No sense in having them in.

I think you're making a case for me to actually vote GOP. angrysoba might be right. I haven't heard such a great case to vote GOP as being made here.

Sure, if they win straight up it's hard to argue with it being legitimate, beyond the normal caveats that the electoral college is the antithesis of Democracy and blah blah blah.

Realistically what we're seeing is that Democrats prefer losing than doing what it takes to win, probably because of mix of sincere centrist ideology and a sense duty to their wealthy benefactors that fund their campaigns and promise them enrichment.

It's really a stark comparison. The right wing is inventing transparently fraudulent moral panics and every GOP member is competing to outdue the other in their response to it. Meanwhile Democrats ignore honest-to-god grassroots political. Has a single Democrat set foot on a strike line during this historic swell of labor power? Has any offered any support beyond Biden just reading the plain text of the law affirming their right to strike?

Hell, there was a whole nationwide protest movement against the police and racial injustice and the Democrats responded by giving cops more money. Pelosi kneeled in a Kente cloth, what more do you want?

Democrats are getting winning issues handed to them in gift-boxes and they refuse to accept it, meanwhile every Republican is competing to see who can scream the loudest about crypto-Marxist school librarians. It's stunning how checked-out the Democratic politicians are. They just don't care.
 
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Realistically what we're seeing is that Democrats prefer losing than doing what it takes to win, probably because of mix of sincere centrist ideology and a sense duty to their wealthy benefactors that fund their campaigns and promise them enrichment.

There we go then. Easy enough.

The difference between the parties is people to the left will never be happy. The right will take any progress towards whatever their goal is and be pleased that it's happening. That will never, ever happen on the left. It's either everything they want immediately upon getting political power, or **** them, they're garbage that never ever gets anything done. There is no in between. The current administration HAS gotten stuff done, but memory is short here in the US.

ETA: Hell, we're not even a year into this administration.
 
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Democrats are getting winning issues handed to them in gift-boxes and they refuse to accept it, meanwhile every Republican is competing to see who can scream the loudest about crypto-Marxist school librarians. It's stunning how checked-out the Democratic politicians are. They just don't care.

All extremely great reasons not to vote for Democrats.
 
There we go then. Easy enough.

The difference between the parties is people to the left will never be happy. The right will take any progress towards whatever their goal is and be pleased that it's happening. That will never, ever happen on the left. It's either everything they want immediately upon getting political power, or **** them, they're garbage that never ever gets anything done. There is no in between. The current administration HAS gotten stuff done, but memory is short here in the US.

The difference is the right purged all the fake conservatives from their ranks and are actually delivering on things they promise. The problem, of course, is that the things the right wants are objectively evil, but as a matter of political representation, the right wing is far more responsive to the will of their voters.
 
The difference is the right purged all the fake conservatives from their ranks and are actually delivering on things they promise. The problem, of course, is that the things the right wants are objectively evil, but as a matter of political representation, the right wing is far more responsive to the will of their voters.

So they're actually representatives, right?
 
LoL you caught me. I'm secretly a Republican. My years upon years of posting here supporting things like gay marriage, immigration, gun control, etc. has just been a long con. I've been fooling everyone in hopes of flipping the tables a decade after I joined to get the Dems here to not vote in the 2022 midterm elections. :rolleyes:

The reason I want them to get trounced in the midterms is extremely simple. If they get trounced in the midterms, it gives 2 years of the GOP ******** before the general election in 2024. Where the inaction might be used to the Dems advantage...or I'm a secret Republican. You pick.

Lol! I’m joking but in the end it doesn’t matter. Persuading people not to vote for the Democrats means you are doing the work for Republicans whether you are one or not.
 
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