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The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II

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Jack by the hedge said:
Yeah. They attacked him with a chemical weapon. If they had attacked him with something that caused diabetes or hypertension or prostate cancer so nobody thought it was anything but bad luck it would have been less of a message.

Sinking a ship in a way that most people think was just an accident is a similarly crappy "message".
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The message was to the western governments, not the public. The attitude would be, 'It was you that used civilians as collateral, thinking you would be shielded by them'.
 
Vixen said:
No idea but the claim 'if there had been a device at the car ramp, Linde would have gone deaf' - if the bang he claims he heard and which he said caused a wave swell on the ship almost knocking him off his feet - ain't necessarily so.
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The ship diving into a large wave and the force on the bow being so great that the bottom lock failed with a loud bang is consistent with the description.

A bomb which not only smashed the lock with its shockwave but caused the entire ship to violently heave, to the extent that it almost knocked the witness off his feet, yet somehow did not injure him with its ship-rocking blast is something you need to take away and have a big think about because it's fundamentally stupid.
 
Vixen said:
The message was to the western governments, not the public. The attitude would be, 'It was you that used civilians as collateral, thinking you would be shielded by them'.
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The suicide commandos you imagine could just have thrown the smugglers overboard instead of sinking the ship they were sailing on. It's a stupid plan.

It's the plot holes you need to deal with, not the holes in the ship.
 
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Vixen said:
The message was to the western governments, not the public. The attitude would be, 'It was you that used civilians as collateral, thinking you would be shielded by them'.
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But I thought it was rammed by a Swedish sub so that's why it was covered up?
 
Jack by the hedge said:
The ship diving into a large wave and the force on the bow being so great that the bottom lock failed with a loud bang is consistent with the description.

A bomb which not only smashed the lock with its shockwave but caused the entire ship to violently heave, to the extent that it almost knocked the witness off his feet, yet somehow did not injure him with its ship-rocking blast is something you need to take away and have a big think about because it's fundamentally stupid.
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He would have been in a bit of a mess to say the least.
 
Jack by the hedge said:
The ship diving into a large wave and the force on the bow being so great that the bottom lock failed with a loud bang is consistent with the description.

A bomb which not only smashed the lock with its shockwave but caused the entire ship to violently heave, to the extent that it almost knocked the witness off his feet, yet somehow did not injure him with its ship-rocking blast is something you need to take away and have a big think about because it's fundamentally stupid.
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Remember: Linde is not a reliable witness. He claims he was sharing a hospital room with one of the 'disappeared Estonian crew'; he left the room and when he came back he had vanished, complete with his bed'.

Linde is a pathological liar, unfortunately (claims he was framed for the drug smuggling offence).

However, liars will often use elements of truth to embellish their false claims. Unfortunately, with Linde it is difficult to spot the true version.

But it is interesting he should mention a loud bang at the bow ramp at 1:00am in his earliest statements before any hype came out.
 
This Gish is galloping so hard and fast I swear its hooves will soon burst into flames.
 
Vixen said:
To cover the backs of Carl Bildt and the CIA. A patronising attitude that the public did not need to know.
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So there was or there wasn't a sub?

Are you now abandoning the submarine idea and going with Russian bombs?

What about the idea that the crew opened the bow visor and ramp to dump a burning lorry overboard?
 
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Vixen said:
To cover the backs of Carl Bildt and the CIA. A patronising attitude that the public did not need to know.
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Did the smuggling stop?

Did "sending a message" work?

No? Oh.

It's a fantasy. Chucking the smugglers overboard would have sent a message. What actually happened only sent one message: build stronger ships.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
What about the crew opening the bows to push burning lorries overboard?
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That is an opinion by some. It is also an opinion that the bow visor was blown off after the ship sank and thus, doesn't really have anything to do with why it sank.

The various expert groups don't believe any of the four of five crewmen down in the engine room, deck 1 and car ramp were telling the whole truth, and who can blame them when the crew are naturally going to be blamed and they are in fear of being criminally charged and even having damages claimed against them.

Ditto the shipping line.

Ditto the German shipbuilders.
 
You clearly have zero idea how intelligence agencies work, you have zero idea on how smugglers operate and you are just making up whatever fantasy best suits your whims at the instant you talk about them. You are a gadfly with severe Dunning-Kruger issues.
 
Vixen said:
That is an opinion by some. It is also an opinion that the bow visor was blown off after the ship sank and thus, doesn't really have anything to do with why it sank.

The various expert groups don't believe any of the four of five crewmen down in the engine room, deck 1 and car ramp were telling the whole truth, and who can blame them when the crew are naturally going to be blamed and they are in fear of being criminally charged and even having damages claimed against them.

Ditto the shipping line.

Ditto the German shipbuilders.
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What would the engine room crew be charged with?
 
Vixen said:
The message was to the western governments, not the public. The attitude would be, 'It was you that used civilians as collateral, thinking you would be shielded by them'.
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Citation, please.






I jest, obviously. You cannot cite any evidence to support this conjecture, as it a fantasy you have constructed of whole cloth. A fiction, or, if you will, a steaming hot pile of purest, high grade ********1.

1for clarification, the censored is a crude reference to bovine excrement, the implication being that you are making ****2 up.

2another reference to excrement. I would apologise, but it is an accurate description.
 
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