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Discussion: Transwomen are not women (Part 7)

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Emily's Cat said:
So... it is your conclusion that they're wrong about their current gender identity?
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This is a cisgender guy with a lot of fetishes who mistakenly believed he was transgender and he didn't like how he was treated as doctors easily saw through his ruse.

He also seems to have a pattern of always thinking he knows better than the doctors, which is why he was taking a lot of different meds for uses they were never approved for. I was prescribed Naltrexone by the VA for alcohol dependence, but its use for compulsive sexual behavior is not well established. Surprised they gave it to him since I know from personal experience how they are with anything 'experimental'.

The re-classification of his disorder as a paraphilia seems to be correct. I'm prescribed Lupron injections by the VA too, and it's a very effective treatment for gender dysphoria, but it seems not that much for paraphilias.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Did you actually read the whole thing? Shupe most definitely did NOT try to delegitmize all transgender identities. What Shupe did, however, was to acknowledge that their own dysphoria is not the result of an immutable internal characteristic, a special "female brain" or "female soul", but rather is a manifestation of a paraphilia.

Shupe in no way denigrates or says anything uncivil about *all* transgender identities, in fact they seem fairly supportive of the category of gender dysphoria that you have.

A large portion of Shupe's view is based on the fact that the medical care he received at the very beginning was inappropriate and wrong and harmful to them, as well as to other people who are like him. They were not treated for the condition they actually have, they were treated for a condition that is en vogue at the moment. And that treatment did not help them, it made them worse.

Shupe was misdiagnosed as being transgender from the get-go. As was Keira Bell. And all of the other people who have detransitioned.

Are they all brainwashed? Are all of their identities up for debate? Is the harm done to them and to their bodies, is the lack of appropriate clinical care, something you think is just fine?

Look, Boudicca, I have compassion and sympathy for you. But I ask you to take just half a step back, and try not to take this discussion as personal. I accept that your gender identity is appropriate for you, and that you have gender dysphoria and that transitioning is the appropriate treatment for you.

I ask that you step away from your personal journey and ask yourself whether transition might, just maybe, NOT be the appropriate treatment for everyone. Is it perhaps possible that some people are being misdiagnosed?

Autogynephilia is an actual diagnosis in DSM-5, by the way. It's one of the sub-set disorders under transvestic disorder, which is classified as a paraphilia. People with transvestic disorders ought to be able to access appropriate clinical care and treatment for their conditions. Being tracked onto the incorrect diagnosis of gender dysphoria, with a direct lane to medicalization, is probably not the appropriate treatment for them.
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Yes, I've read the whole thing, as disgusting as he can be at times.

He wasn't misdiagnosed, he misdiagnosed himself and made himself believe that he was transgender. And based on what he told them, they thought he was.

He wasn't, he's just a fetishist who was led down a false path by the likes of people like Blanchard and Cantor. And the VA rightfully corrected their mistake and classified his condition more appropriately. He tried to game the system and failed. Too bad.
 
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Boudicca90 said:
This is a cisgender guy with a lot of fetishes who mistakenly believed he was transgender and he didn't like how he was treated as doctors easily saw through his ruse.
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Now I'm quite sure you didn't read it. The doctors did NOT see through his "ruse". He didn't have a ruse to begin with, he was misdiagnosed. He fought with doctors to get them to acknowledge that his problem was a paraphilia, not a transgender identity.
 
Boudicca90 said:
Yes, I've read the whole thing, as disgusting as he can be at times.

He wasn't misdiagnosed, he misdiagnosed himself and made himself believe that he was transgender. And based on what he told them, they thought he was.

He wasn't, he's just a fetishist who was led down a false path by the likes of people like Blanchard and Cantor. And the VA rightfully corrected their mistake and classified his condition more appropriately. He tried to game the system and failed. Too bad.
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This is incoherent. He wasn't led down a "false path" by Blanchard and Cantor. Those two were the ones who would have accurately identified his problem as a paraphilia!

His actual and correct diagnosis is "Transvestic disorder with with autogynephilia". He didn't try to "game the system", he tried to get appropriate care for his actual problem instead of the inappropriate care for the wrong diagnosis that they gave him!
 
d4m10n said:
You seem to be claiming that Jenner consistently experienced dysphoria, never once accepting themselves as male. That may be true, but I've seen no reason to accept it yet.
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I never said consistently. I didn't consistently experience dysphoria throughout my life either.

There were points where I tried to put it out of my mind by occupying my life with more 'masculine' pursuits like joining the military, or numbing my thoughts with excessive alcoholism. It always came back though.
 
Boudicca90 said:
The only thing that makes me sad about this person's story is that they were brainwashed with pseudoscience and anti-trans ideas from people like Blanchard.

In the end they were certainly a pawn, used to justify the false concept of 'autogynephilia' among trans women.
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Your comment here really reinforces one of my observations. A very large number of transgender identified people demand respect, care, compassion, and empathy from everyone else in the world... but consistently exhibit almost none of their own.

Your lack of care for what Shupe has gone through is striking. If I recall correctly, you exhibited the same complete disregard for what Keira Bell went through.

It's the same lack of compassion and respect that you seem to show toward females in general.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Boudicca, can you please answer a very sincere question?

Why do you seem so threatened by Transvestic Disorder with Autogynephilia, given that it does not apply to you? What experience or information leads you to reject it from consideration so completely and treat it with disdain?
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Because it gets falsely associated with people like me.

When I was a kid and teen, I would wear women's clothing because it felt right. But there was also sexual excitement that came from it. The difference is that over time as it became more normal and everyday for me, that excitement dissipated and eventually went away. It became less taboo and more normal. But that kind of thing about my past is something I would never admit to a therapist because they might put me in the same camp as this freak.

People who are solely guided by these kinds of fetishes are could be considered autogynephiles, but they aren't transgender. Blanchard and his cohorts like to put us all in one pile, and that's where the problems start.
 
Boudicca90 said:
I never said consistently. I didn't consistently experience dysphoria throughout my life either.
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You said "Eddie Izzard was always a woman and Elliot Page was always a man." This seems to imply consistency of experience, if the experience of gender identity is indeed the quality which makes one either a woman or man.
 
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Emily's Cat said:
Your comment here really reinforces one of my observations. A very large number of transgender identified people demand respect, care, compassion, and empathy from everyone else in the world... but consistently exhibit almost none of their own.

Your lack of care for what Shupe has gone through is striking. If I recall correctly, you exhibited the same complete disregard for what Keira Bell went through.

It's the same lack of compassion and respect that you seem to show toward females in general.
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I lack compassion for people who attempt to harm our community.

I lack compassion for Caitlyn Jenner for the same reason, she has done nothing but harm and attack us. The fact that she has become the most well-known trans woman out there and therefore considered a 'representative' of us by some people is disgusting.
 
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d4m10n said:
You said "Eddie Izzard was always a woman and Elliot Page was always a man." This seems to imply consistency of experience, if the experience of gender identity is indeed the quality which makes one either a woman or man.
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How about almost-always-but-not-quite-but-sometimes-but-close-enough?

Few things in life are absolute.
 
Boudicca90 said:
I lack compassion for people who attempt to harm our community.

I lack compassion for Caitlyn Jenner for the same reason, she has done nothing but harm and attack us. The fact hat she has become the most well-known trans woman out there and therefore considered a 'representative' of us by some people is disgusting.
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Oh but I like this! No compassion for anyone who doesn't further my agenda! That certainly explains the knee jerk projection that trans questioners lack compassion.

And just when I thought this thread had nothing new to offer.
 
Louden Wilde said:
This really is the heart of this whole discussion. Why would we want to perpetuate these stereotypes when they cause people harm and don't serve an essential purpose.

Unfortunately, I think the (indirect) answer we're getting is that some people really, really like them. They just happen to like stereotypes that wouldn't typically be associated with them, so are pushing the idea that these stereotypes constitute some (un-assayable) inner essence that is more important than sex or people wanting to get rid of those stereotypes.
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The T seems to be trying to conform to the rules, whereas the Lb and other letters seem to be fighting against the rules, I don't get why they they are lumped together.
 
Boudicca90 said:
Because it gets falsely associated with people like me.
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I don’t think anyone here has done that. And while that is certainly grounds for caution, if the condition applies to some people, then to refuse acknowledging it is basically insisting on misdiagnosing those who actually have it. And that seems like a rather ironic solution to the problem of misdiagnosing people who don’t have it.
 
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