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The Sinking of MS Estonia: Case Re-opened Part II

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Here's a possibly better question. Have you ever take a course in Security Studies?
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Here's a possibly better question. Have you ever take a course in Security Studies?
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Seriously ... every question aimed at Vixen will have a downside outcome but no conceivable upside.

Seriously. Isn't it clear by now? (Not getting at you, by the way. I've been as guilty as anybody here).
 
Wow, just read this thread from page 1 for amusement purposes. It should come as no surprise that OP is happy to contradict previous claims if it suits the current argument, so you're not imagining it.

I say it's amusing partly because they're talking about topics that I know more than a little about, so the plain wrongness uttered is good for a laugh. The rest of the amusing is watching the logical knots being formed to try to fit the claims into a consistent narrative.

Hell, you could transpose the whole argument to any topic in the forum and do a search and replace subbing MS Estonia for, let's say, "cricket" and it would read just as well...
 
MarkCorrigan said:
I am aware of that, but you specifically said he was the head of the KGB and the the replacement service at the time of the incident. He left the intelligence services in 1991 while it was still the KGB.

1991 Putin leaves the KGB. Later on that same year the KGB is dissolved. He wasn't head of the security service the. Why did you claim he was?

Do you consider yourself a expert on the KGB, yes or no?
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The KGB was run by a committee (being 'Soviets') which had a 'Head'. Like the UK MI5 this head is just an administrative figurehead. These aren't the guys involved in action on the ground. So Putin left to get involved in politics. He is now President and is technically the minister in charge of the Russian Intelligence Agencies. I am sure he has more control over these guys than his predecessor Yeltsin did in 1994.

Can I ask, why don't you do what normal people do and just make a correction, or maybe you thrive on point-scoring without contributing anything yourself.
 
GlennB said:
Seriously ... every question aimed at Vixen will have a downside outcome but no conceivable upside.

Seriously. Isn't it clear by now? (Not getting at you, by the way. I've been as guilty as anybody here).
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People put coins in slots to play whack-a-mole. This is free.
 
Vixen said:
The KGB was run by a committee (being 'Soviets') which had a 'Head'. Like the UK MI5 this head is just an administrative figurehead. These aren't the guys involved in action on the ground. So Putin left to get involved in politics. He is now President and is technically the minister in charge of the Russian Intelligence Agencies. I am sure he has more control over these guys than his predecessor Yeltsin did in 1994.

Can I ask, why don't you do what normal people do and just make a correction, or maybe you thrive on point-scoring without contributing anything yourself.
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What does he need to make a correction for? Everything he wrote is accurate. It's you who made the mistake here. So are you going to "do what normal people do and just make a correction"?
 
Vixen said:
Can I ask, why don't you do what normal people do and just make a correction, or maybe you thrive on point-scoring without contributing anything yourself.
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You have made great hay lecturing others about the activities, history, methods, etc of Swedish intelligence, the CIA, the KGB, MI6, etc.

You have laid blame for the Estonia disaster at the feet of "Putin and co" because he was "head of the KGB".

When asked about this you blathered on about something irrelevant and snidely told your interlocutor to "do pay attention"

Turns out that despite all your bluster about history, politics, intelligence agencies, etc you didn't know that not only wad Putin not head of the KGB/FSB in 1994, he wasn't even in the agency in 1994 having resigned from it 3 years earlier, and even worse had never risen above the rank of a mid level officer, never mind being "head" of the agency.

You are reaping what you have sowed.

Why should anyone believe your declarations about how the KGB or CIA works when you display your ignorance so prominently on your sleeve?
 
LondonJohn said:
Yes, I know all about the rank. Enlighten me as to your motivation in posting this link to a wikipedia article.
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JesseCuster said:
Why did you post that link?:confused:
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LondonJohn made a point and Vixen responded (responded rather than answered or clarified, i.e. Vixen typed some ol' stuff). In Vixenworld this is considered an adequate reply and her inane gibbering can continue without pause.
 
JesseCuster said:
You have made great hay lecturing others about the activities, history, methods, etc of Swedish intelligence, the CIA, the KGB, MI6, etc.

You have laid blame for the Estonia disaster at the feet of "Putin and co" because he was "head of the KGB".

When asked about this you blathered on about something irrelevant and snidely told your interlocutor to "do pay attention"

Turns out that despite all your bluster about history, politics, intelligence agencies, etc you didn't know that not only wad Putin not head of the KGB/FSB in 1994, he wasn't even in the agency in 1994 having resigned from it 3 years earlier, and even worse had never risen above the rank of a mid level officer, never mind being "head" of the agency.

You are reaping what you have sowed.

Why should anyone believe your declarations about how the KGB or CIA works when you display your ignorance so prominently on your sleeve?
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Grow up. I mentioned Putin maybe two or three times at most.

It is not even particularly relevant to this thread.
 
Vixen said:
Comparative military ranks Commissioned officers


Armies,
air forces,
space forces Navies Air forces
(Commonwealth system)


Lieutenant colonel Commander Wing commander
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This was the point you were addressing responding to:
LondonJohn said:
Yes, it was a very strange thing to say - especially given that a Lieutenant Colonel in the KBG is equivalent in rank to a......

..... Lieutenant Colonel in the British (or US) Army.
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How does a link to a Wikipedia article about the rank of lieutenant colonel explain why you chose to highlight the equivalence to an Air Force rank?

Are you suggesting that since the hole is above the Estonia’s water line it could have been caused by a collision with a low-flying military aircraft?
 
Mojo said:
This was the point you were addressing responding to:

How does a link to a Wikipedia article about the rank of lieutenant colonel explain why you chose to highlight the equivalence to an Air Force rank?

Are you suggesting that since the hole is above the Estonia’s water line it could have been caused by a collision with a low-flying military aircraft?
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Brilliant! You've cracked the case!

A KGB seaplane covers all the bases - holes, bombs, offloading commandos and military secrets, the thing spotted floating nearby ...
 
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