Afghanistan

[Michel H]

A view of Afghanistan under the Taliban from on the ground in Kabul.

By a woman.

Al Jazeera reporter Charlotte Bellis has no plans to leave and here's her take, which is a lot more informed than a bunch of keyboard warriors, almost none of whom have set foot in the country: https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/...stan-and-why-being-a-kiwi-helps-her-feel-safe

This article was first posted on August 22 (18 days ago): https://capsulenz.com/think/charlotte-bellis-afghanistan/ and is a little old and out-of-date for the keyboard warriors who want to keep up-to-date with the most recent developments in this fast-evolving situation.

 

[The Atheist]

She's on Al Jazeera most days and is staying.

 

[Arcade22]

A view of Afghanistan under the Taliban from on the ground in Kabul.

By a woman.

Al Jazeera reporter Charlotte Bellis has no plans to leave and here's her take, which is a lot more informed than a bunch of keyboard warriors, almost none of whom have set foot in the country: https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/...stan-and-why-being-a-kiwi-helps-her-feel-safe

“The Taliban have always treated me respectfully, and they’ve never intimidated me. I’m surprised at the image of them around the world, that they’re so inhuman. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.

“The easiest way for me to explain it is that the Taliban are like any political party. There are medieval brutes that you need to stay away from, there are politicians who will just tell you what you want to hear, and then there are smart, authentic people who genuinely want to see betterment, and who just didn’t want Americans here.

“Those are the people that I have relationships with – they’re intelligent and rational and want to see Afghanistan improve.

Yes let's improve Afghanistan by instituting an incompetent reactionary totalitarian theocracy that terrorizes people into following its rules. Naturally this can only be done by killing hundreds of thousands of people and maiming countless others, but the price is well worth it.

The Taliban - No different from any other political party or organisation.

 

[Arcade22]

Meanwhile, in the real world, non-useful idiots are being beaten and tortured by The Taliban for having the courage to cover people protesting.

A spate of violent attacks on Afghan journalists by the*Taliban*is prompting growing alarm over the freedom of the country’s media, with one senior journalist declaring that “press freedom has ended”.

As images and testimony circulated internationally of the arrest and brutal flogging of two reporters who were detained covering a women’s rights demonstration in Kabul on Wednesday, Human Rights Watch and the Committee to Protect Journalists raised concern over the recent string of attacks.

In just two days this week, the Taliban detained and later released at least 14 journalists covering protests in Kabul, with at least six of these journalists subject to violence during their arrests or detention, the CPJ reported.

Other journalists, including some working with the BBC, were also prevented from filming the protest on Wednesday.

The Taliban authorities also briefly detained a*Tolonews*photojournalist, Wahid Ahmadi, on Tuesday, confiscating his camera and preventing other journalists from filming the protest he was covering.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-journalists-by-taliban-prompt-growing-alarm

Journalism?! I don't bloody think shariah allows it!

 

[Roger Ramjets]

Yes let's improve Afghanistan by instituting an incompetent reactionary totalitarian theocracy that terrorizes people into following its rules.

But enough about Texas.

Exactly how are our reactionary theocratic schemes improving Afghanistan?

Meanwhile, in the real world, non-useful idiots are being beaten and tortured by The Taliban for having the courage to cover people protesting.

Meanwhile in our real world, journalists in the US are being assaulted while police officers stand by.


‘Open season on media’: journalists increasingly targeted at Los Angeles protests

Los Angeles has seen volatile protests almost every weekend this summer over trans rights, political opposition to masks and vaccines, and the recall of the Democratic governor. At least seven journalists have been physically assaulted while covering these rallies, six of them by rightwing demonstrators.

Attacks on the press are just one part of escalating rightwing street violence in the city, which has included multiple stabbings, people being sprayed in the face with bear Mace, an assault on a breast cancer patient outside a clinic, and repeated physical brawls with leftwing protesters in the streets. In another sign of growing tensions, protesters rallying against vaccine mandates showed up at the homes of two Los Angeles city council members on Sunday.

Several Los Angeles journalists said the violence was like nothing they had seen before, and that some of the attacks had taken place with police officers standing nearby.

Here's an idea. Instead of wringing our hands about what a country half way around the World is finally able to do after 20 years of us 'improving' it, how about we do something about the reactionary theocratic violence in our own country?

 

[The Atheist]

The Taliban - No different from any other political party or organisation.

No, they're an evil bunch of fanatics using islam as a tool.

And what do you want to do about it? Invade them and have another 20-year war?

Turn them into pariahs like North Korea, which neatly allows the leadership to starve millions of people to death?

Turn them over to sole Chinese influence and allow the Uighurs to be exterminated entirely?

How many people crying about the Taliban in this thread ranted about the Rwandan genocide and demanded action? How many of them remember Biafra, far less know what caused the famine? And of those few, how many stood outside Westminster and demanded criminal trials of those responsible?

Speaking of UK, it's not like Ireland's been well handled for several centuries, and in the end, they were forced to talk to Sinn Fein. I believe they even sit in Parliament now, and 40 years ago they were viewed exactly the same as the Taliban - murdering terrorist bastards, so yeah, maybe the Taliban aren't much different from other political parties.

If ever there were a time for the "You catch more flies with jam than vinegar" approach, what to do with the Taliban seems to be it.

 

[Arcade22]

No, they're an evil bunch of fanatics using islam as a tool.

You have it completely backwards. Religion is not a tool for these people, it's the goal.

And what do you want to do about it? Invade them and have another 20-year war?

No what I want to do is pretend that the Taliban are a perfectly good people who are not really different from anyone else and all they want is to make Afghanistan a better place without any Americans.

Turn them into pariahs like North Korea, which neatly allows the leadership to starve millions of people to death?

I'm pretty sure that the Taliban will be able to starve their people to death all on their own, just like the Kim dynasty does.

Oh and the Taliban have made themselves pariahs, but if you want act like 9/11 never happened then go ahead.

Turn them over to sole Chinese influence and allow the Uighurs to be exterminated entirely?

That's such an ridiculous red herring that you deserve some kind of reward for it.

How many people crying about the Taliban in this thread ranted about the Rwandan genocide and demanded action? How many of them remember Biafra, far less know what caused the famine? And of those few, how many stood outside Westminster and demanded criminal trials of those responsible?

Whataboutitis is a dangerous disease and I don't want to be infected. Try again.

 

[Arcade22]

Here's an idea. Instead of wringing our hands about what a country half way around the World is finally able to do after 20 years of us 'improving' it, how about we do something about the reactionary theocratic violence in our own country?

Here's an idea: if you want to discuss American politics please do so in the proper forum section. This is a thread about Afghanistan, not your country.

 

[The Atheist]

Oh and the Taliban have made themselves pariahs, but if you want act like 9/11 never happened then go ahead.

That is truly pathetic.

USA waged war on them for 20 years due to an attack carried out by a bunch of Saudi nationals.

But do carry on - you have no answers and are simply whining.

Whataboutitis is a dangerous disease and I don't want to be infected. Try again.

Yeah, it's dangerous because it's true. Atrocities happen all the time, and are ignored. There are a lot more people at risk right now in Ethiopia than Afghanistan, but it's whataboutism, so you can forget them.

In your infinite wisdom, what do you think the west should do about the Taliban?

 

[Ziggurat]

That is truly pathetic.

USA waged war on them for 20 years due to an attack carried out by a bunch of Saudi nationals.

Are you really pretending the Taliban didn’t have a hand in 9/11?

 

[Arcade22]

That is truly pathetic.

USA waged war on them for 20 years due to an attack carried out by a bunch of Saudi nationals.

You are either lying or extremely ignorant.

The Taliban aided and abetted Al-Qaeda, refused to stop doing so even after the US launch missile strikes against AQ camps in Afghanistan after the USS Cole attack. They ignored UN sanctions to cease hosting terrorists even before 9/11. They knew exactly what AQ was doing.

Most importantly, even today they have not renounced Al-Qaeda.

 

[The Atheist]

Are you really pretending the Taliban didn’t have a hand in 9/11?

Of course not.

I just find the response by USA hilarious.

"We've just had a terrorist strike carried out by a bunch of Saudis, aided by Afghanistan!"

"Ok, let's bomb the **** out of Afghanistan for twenty years and suck up to the House of Saud some more."

And just remind me again where those guys took their flying lessons? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Kabul.

 

[Ziggurat]

Of course not.

I just find the response by USA hilarious.

"We've just had a terrorist strike carried out by a bunch of Saudis, aided by Afghanistan!"

"Ok, let's bomb the **** out of Afghanistan for twenty years and suck up to the House of Saud some more."

And just remind me again where those guys took their flying lessons? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Kabul.

I’m confused. Did you want us to bomb Saudi Arabia?

 

[The Atheist]

I’m confused. Did you want us to bomb Saudi Arabia?

No, I'd prefer you bombed nobody. The strikes are often very badly targeted and result in numerous innocent deaths. The fact that USA actively supports the revolting, murderous and genocidal Saud regime seems pretty damned ironic when you've just spent 20 years losing to a different bunch of ragheads.

The point is, there are many murderous, revolting dictatorships around the world and nobody voted America to play judge, jury and executioner. I have no idea what the criteria is for military action, because several million dead Rwandans didn't rate a single Seal team, and I don't see any attempt for America to divorce its production and economy from China, or declare war on them while they're actively involved in persecuting a million or so people.

Maybe if you guys won a war every now and then there'd be a point to it all, but as Iraq and Afghanistan show, countries are usually worse off after your involvement.

 

[Ziggurat]

No, I'd prefer you bombed nobody.

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Nor, frankly, should it. Military reprisals for 9/11 were justified. You can quibble about how those reprisals were done, but if you actually think we would have been better off just taking it lying down, well, that's as delusional as thinking Hitler could have been appeased by letting him have Poland.

I have no idea what the criteria is for military action, because several million dead Rwandans didn't rate a single Seal team

While I wish we had done something, it's not wrong for us to prioritize American lives.

and I don't see any attempt for America to divorce its production and economy from China

There are some attempts. Yes, we should do more. But that's not really got a lot to do with Afghanistan.

or declare war on them while they're actively involved in persecuting a million or so people.

Again: it is right and proper for the US government to prioritize US lives.

 

[theprestige]

Of course not.

I just find the response by USA hilarious.

"We've just had a terrorist strike carried out by a bunch of Saudis, aided by Afghanistan!"

"Ok, let's bomb the **** out of Afghanistan for twenty years and suck up to the House of Saud some more."

And just remind me again where those guys took their flying lessons? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Kabul.

Why would there be repercussions for a government that clearly didn't support these guys?

Why wouldn't there be repercussions for the government that did support them?

You seem to have a very weird idea of how complicity works. Either that or you've got a pretty good conspiracy theory going on.

 

[abaddon]

Speaking of UK, it's not like Ireland's been well handled for several centuries, and in the end, they were forced to talk to Sinn Fein. I believe they even sit in Parliament now, and 40 years ago they were viewed exactly the same as the Taliban - murdering terrorist bastards, so yeah, maybe the Taliban aren't much different from other political parties.

No. Sink Fein do not take their seats in Westminster. What planet are you on?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

No. Sink Fein do not take their seats in Westminster. What planet are you on?

Plus, Sinn Fein were affiliated with the IRA, but not actually terrorists themselves.

 

[Arcade22]

Of course not.

I just find the response by USA hilarious.

"We've just had a terrorist strike carried out by a bunch of Saudis, aided by Afghanistan!"

"Ok, let's bomb the **** out of Afghanistan for twenty years and suck up to the House of Saud some more."

Yes I do love these non-sequiturs you keep coming up with, they are very funny.

The US retaliating against terrorists who are operating out of Afghanistan is bad because many of them were from Saudi Arabia? Saudi Arabia sucks therefore Taliban and Al-Qaeda are good and America bad for defending themselves?

And just remind me again where those guys took their flying lessons? I'm pretty sure it wasn't Kabul.

I'm not sure Kabul had a flight school at the time.

 

[The Atheist]

Yeah, that's not going to happen. Nor, frankly, should it. Military reprisals for 9/11 were justified.

A typical American response.

What a complete picture of everything that's wrong with America - you have only one eye open, and the only response ever is to hit harder than you yourself were hit. How very ******* grown-up of you. I've always considered America a bit like politicians - a toddler who never grew up. Cry and throw your toys out of the cot.

In 2021 AD.*

Utterly pathetic. Christ, I hope Vlad doesn't even perfect one of his not-secret weapons, because America would collectively **** its pants so hard the world would probably flip.

You can quibble about how those reprisals were done, but if you actually think we would have been better off just taking it lying down, well, that's as delusional as thinking Hitler could have been appeased by letting him have Poland.

Wow, Godwin already? Well played.

Again, you are so one-eyed you can't even see an alternative to lying down with your legs open. It never even occurs to you that there are options inbetween abject surrender and smashing the living crap out of them, while spending a trillion or two and killing or ruining countless American lives.

Nice work.

And you don't see the irony in promoting war when you've just utterly lost one, at enormous cost, for the sake of exactly no progress! You spent 20 years trying to defeat the Taliban and it took them a few days to take it all back.

While I wish we had done something, it's not wrong for us to prioritize American lives.

I hope you were clutching your tit and saluting the American flag while you typed that.

Of course, American lives are more important than any other. Another reason the world views the country with horror or derision.

I can't wait to see how trying to stop the Rwandan genocide is prioritising American lives. Most of deaths were done with machetes fire. No IEDs, a few hundreds AK47s.

There are some attempts. Yes, we should do more. But that's not really got a lot to do with Afghanistan.

China has everything to do with Afghanistan, and not just least because China is going to dive into that vacuum of international relations.

And since you're so worried about those god-blessed American people, I'd have expected any country that has so far killed tens of thousands of Americans in the past five years to be seen as a major threat.

Almost all illegal fentanyl comes to USA from China. I'd estimate the death toll from https://www.commonwealthfund.org/bl...toll-2020-and-near-term-actions-addressing-it.

And you can bet your life it's done with the full complicity of the CCP. Without political support the guys running it would be rotting corpses and the trade wouldn't exist.

Why would there be repercussions for a government that clearly didn't support these guys?

Why wouldn't there be repercussions for the government that did support them?

What repercussions are you talking about?

They can vary from suspending sports relations to all-out war.

You seem to have a very weird idea of how complicity works. Either that or you've got a pretty good conspiracy theory going on.

No, you just missed the entire point - try again. Maybe read my response above.

No. Sink Fein do not take their seats in Westminster. What planet are you on?

When did they sink? But, fair cop.

Assembly.

Plus, Sinn Fein were affiliated with the IRA, but not actually terrorists themselves.

Jeez, that's a very fine distinction you're attempting there.

"Affiliated with IRA" doesn't seem to fit with: The British government stated in 2005 that "we had always said all the way through we believed that Sinn Féin and the IRA were inextricably linked and that had obvious implications at leadership level"

I think NI and the delightfully euphemistic name for the Civil War that raged for an entire generation of "The Troubles" are a good example of talking rather than shooting.

3500 known victims of that war, in a count that is almost certainly short, and a conflict that involved equally-horrendous human abuses, torture, rape and murder than the Taliban are capable of.

Yet, they put their guns and blowtorches down and while things aren't perfect, it's a very large improvement.

If you can spot the difference between raping and killing by the Taliban and raping and killing by provos and prods, let me know, because I ain't seeing any.


*Yes, don't care