Afghanistan

[Michel H]

The clue was in being the inspiration for the US, Enlightenment France was eighteenth century, this was post revolutionary France when the population was 15 million.

So, you are now apparently referring to post-revolutionary violence in France (around 1789), even though you said:

I think it is worth reflecting on what happened in France after WW2. Nearly 10,000 collaborators were summarily executed in local vigilantism. Nearly 100,000 will have been subject to other forms of justice such as being beaten up, tarred and feathered etc. This in a civilised western country.

(sorry, doesn't seem very clear to me).

Anyway, the population of France was 28 million in 1790 (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histo...totale_et_taux_d'accroissement_de_1740_à_1860 , a wikipedia page in French only), not 15 million.

 

[ponderingturtle]

And, pray tell, what is the diffrence between a Jew fleeing Nazi Germany, or a RUssian fleeing Soviet Russia and an Afghan fleeing what anybody who is not living in another reality knows i going to be a brutal Taliban regime?

People feel bad about returning the Jews to Germany when they tried to flee to America? The others of course no one feels bad about.

 

[The Atheist]

Which atrocities, specifically, are being blamed on the Taliban unfairly?

We'll never know, but it's abundantly clear after a million years of human history that atrocities will happen, and not all of them will be done by the Taliban.

People other than the Taliban are bad.

How many civilians did USA kill with indiscriminate drone strikes over the past 20 years? Are you holding them accountable?

Seems to me the real reason people are getting their panties twisted about the Taliban is because USA lost, yet again. If you count up the number of people killed or tortured by any regime, China is probably well in the lead over the past decade, and I think you'll find USA still does quite a lot of trade with that country.

 

[Planigale]

So, you are now apparently referring to post-revolutionary violence in France (around 1789), even though you said:

(sorry, doesn't seem very clear to me).

Anyway, the population of France was 28 million in 1790 (see https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histo...totale_et_taux_d'accroissement_de_1740_à_1860 , a wikipedia page in French only), not 15 million.

Sorry for the time shift, I did not meant to confuse you. Happy to accept your population, it is irrelevant to the point that what has happened so far in Afghanistan following a successful revolution, war of liberation, is less bloody than often happens. The Taliban so far appear no more evil than you would expect of a group of men coming out of a twenty year long war.

 

[dudalb]

Can you just give us an estimate on how many children the Taliban are going to need to gang rape and butcher in front of their parents in order to re-establish non-medieval religious authority?

But that are their "Traditional Afghan Values", and should be respected

 

[Planigale]

But that are their "Traditional Afghan Values", and should be respected

Perhaps you could provide evidence that this is a traditional Afghan value? Perhaps also explain why men who are not Afghanis have done the same thing year after year throughout the world. It seems to be these are traditional male values handed down from father to son.

 

[The Atheist]

Perhaps you could provide evidence that this is a traditional Afghan value? Perhaps also explain why men who are not Afghanis have done the same thing year after year throughout the world. It seems to be these are traditional male values handed down from father to son.

Let's not forget that even in our enlightened western democracies it has only become illegal to rape one's wife in the past ~30 years, and it's hardly universal even now.

I will never forget a scene in the 1990s where a group of revolting old white men protested that their right to physically discipline their wives was about to be removed.

As my buddy Jesus once said, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone".

 

[trustbutverify]

Let's not forget that even in our enlightened western democracies it has only become illegal to rape one's wife in the past ~30 years, and it's hardly universal even now.

I will never forget a scene in the 1990s where a group of revolting old white men protested that their right to physically discipline their wives was about to be removed.

As my buddy Jesus once said, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone".

Did your buddy ever enforce religious piety by sending his followers to the homes of the offenders, dragging their prepubescent daughters out into the street, gang raping them, and then bashing their brains out in front of their parents as an object lesson to the rest of the village?

 

[trustbutverify]

We'll never know, but it's abundantly clear after a million years of human history that atrocities will happen, and not all of them will be done by the Taliban.

Who has claimed that all atrocities in human history have been done by the Taliban? Who are you contradicting?

 

[The Atheist]

Did your buddy ever enforce religious piety by sending his followers to the homes of the offenders, dragging their prepubescent daughters out into the street, gang raping them, and then bashing their brains out in front of their parents as an object lesson to the rest of the village?

Are you saying American troops who did that were attempting to enforce religious piety?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_rape_and_killings

Huh, you do learn something every day.

 

[The Atheist]

Who has claimed that all atrocities in human history have been done by the Taliban? Who are you contradicting?

That statement convinces me you don't understand plain English, because the conclusion you've drawn about what the post means is far from reality.

 

[theprestige]

"He added that the Taliban hoped it could "persuade people not to do such things, instead of pressuring them."

That must sound very reassuring to the "government doesn't boil down to force or the threat of force" folks.

Meanwhile I read it as "Inshallah we can just threaten to threaten you, and you'll choose to comply without us having to actually threaten you"

 

[trustbutverify]

That must sound very reassuring to the "government doesn't boil down to force or the threat of force" folks.

Meanwhile I read it as "Inshallah we can just threaten to threaten you, and you'll choose to comply without us having to actually threaten you"

I read it as... "this is what I have to say to the international media."

 

[trustbutverify]

Are you saying American troops who did that were attempting to enforce religious piety?

Is that a yes or a no?

 

[trustbutverify]

That statement convinces me you don't understand plain English, because the conclusion you've drawn about what the post means is far from reality.

Break it down for us slow folk who can't keep up with your high intellect.

 

[Planigale]

Did your buddy ever enforce religious piety by sending his followers to the homes of the offenders, dragging their prepubescent daughters out into the street, gang raping them, and then bashing their brains out in front of their parents as an object lesson to the rest of the village?

You are creating the straw man argument that rape and murder is about religious piety. The two are unconnected. Rape is about being male, not about being religious. Your argument is as rational as claiming the Rape of Berlin was about education in Marxism and that My Lai was about enforcing democracy on the vietnamese. The common theme is not religious piety or ideological fervour but men.

There are certainly atrocities committed by men out of ideology, year zero in Cambodia, nazi death camps, but these are clearly different from isolated atrocities.

 

[Samson]

Yes, France. The country that inspired the founding fathers of the US. Not a country the would behave like mediaeval monsters like the Taliban do. I mean the execution of 50,000 people and imprisonment of 2% of the population (of about 15,000,000) in one year is not something that could happen in Enlightenment Europe you have to be evil mediaeval Islamists to do something like that. Not the inspiration of the USA.

Contemporary means of dissemination of knowledge make incomprehensible any parallels. The thought experiment is king, where would you choose to exist today?

 

[The Atheist]

Is that a yes or a no?

You answer me this and I'll explain it to you, regardless of the fact that your question was idiotic - what I said is not ambiguous at all:

Are you saying American troops who did that (child rape and murder) were attempting to enforce religious piety?

 

[Ziggurat]

You are creating the straw man argument that rape and murder is about religious piety. The two are unconnected. Rape is about being male, not about being religious.

You are wrong. For the Taliban, it is about religious piety. It's true that crimes like rape have non-religious motivations, but that isn't disqualifying. Their religion still provides justification and encouragement to do those things. The fact that they may have no-religious motives as well doesn't make the religious motives irrelevant. Most human behaviors have multiple motivations.

The common theme is not religious piety or ideological fervour but men.

If you haven't noticed, the Taliban's religious beliefs are incredibly sexist, so again, that's not exactly disqualifying.

There are certainly atrocities committed by men out of ideology, year zero in Cambodia, nazi death camps, but these are clearly different from isolated atrocities.

The rape and murder that the Taliban commit are not isolated. And they are ideologically motivated.

 

[theprestige]

There have been ideologically evil regimes, but the Taliban isn't one of those regimes, because reasons.