The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

The developing fetus is always alive. Your view is that it gains the ability to move when some external entity you call a "soul" enters it. I think that is a claim without evidence and I do not think it is true. Your repeating the claim seems not to have changed my mind.

After fertilizing a female egg with male sperm in the uterus, it begins to multiply and grow. And this is a growth like vegetable or plant growth. Which only reproduces and self-creates. This process continues until it reaches the stage of 4 to 6 months. Note: At this stage the fetus is physically complete. Therefore, it has the ability to accept the soul. And at that moment the soul enters the body. And the movement of the limbs and the perception of the senses begin. This is an embryological theory and it is completely scientific. The Qur'an says the same thing. Especially in verses 12 to 14 of Sura 23. and 5 of Sura 22.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Dearest darling Heydarian,

How did I exaggerate about you? I don't understand that comment.
What must I believe in before you can tell me what the 'special tools and technology' are, and why must I believe it before you can tell me what they are?
What 'capacity' do I lack? I'm not sure I like the implication in that statement.

Hi. Dear friend; First of all, you have to believe that there is a devil and a demon. If you do not believe in these, it will not be useful for you to see them. It is true? You say these objects are lies and they are not, so how do you want to see them with your own eyes? Does this make sense?
But if you believe that these exist outside, now you can say I want to see them. I will give myself an example for you to better understand this matter. I personally believe in the existence of devils and jinns. So I want to see them. This is the beginning of this demand. Now that I believe these are and I want to see, I have to have the capacity. This capacity means the ability to see and feel these. Because these are not sex like humans. Rather, they are a softer material with different shapes. If I do not have the ability to make these creatures of softer sex and different shapes
And I can not see the strange and wonderful, so I hurt my body and soul. And I'm hurt. And this is not logically correct. So I have to stop seeing these. And I do not seek to see these. It is enough to believe that they are.
Dear friend; I can't tell you and my friends what I mean better than this. I hope you understand what I mean. Thanks a lot

 

[heydarian saeed]

You
View attachment 45165

Hi. You posted a beautiful photo, dear friend. Of course, I am not this young. But in my youth I was much more beautiful than this photo .... Do you want to see my photo 8 years ago? Or take a picture of me now?
But faith is not obligatory. It is optional. The right to choose is reserved. Good luck.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I want you to prove exactly one part of that. I want you to prove "the soul enters the body of the fetus" instead of just assuming it as an explanation of development.

Yes, Sure. I say. But did you ask that question to the pregnant mother? At 4 to 6 months, do you feel the movement of the fetus that you did not feel until then? Did you get the answer?

 

[Pixel42]

I hope you understand what I mean.

Yes, you're saying that your belief that these things exist is so strong that you have managed to persuade yourself that you can actually see them.

You are addressing an audience of sceptics who will only believe something exists after they are given objective evidence for it. You will never convince us that imagining/hallucinating such beings is a good thing, let alone evidence for the supernatural.

Yes, Sure. I say. But did you ask that question to the pregnant mother? At 4 to 6 months, do you feel the movement of the fetus that you did not feel until then? Did you get the answer?

I have seven nephews and three nieces and yes, I talked to my three sisters and two sisters-in-law as they felt their baby begin to move when it reached the stage of development when that naturally happens. It's a thrilling moment, to be sure. None of them considered it, or described it to me, as a soul entering their baby's body. Why would they? It's a baseless, fanciful, notion.

 

[heydarian saeed]

So you know better than the spirit world ? Where did you get the idea the fetus cannot receive the soul until 4 to 6 months. I do not think it is in the Quran

It is said exactly in verse 14 of Sura 23. Read well. Not with the translation of Yousef Ali !!!! ... but I advised you to translate the Arabic text of the verse in Google. Of course, the best way is to get help from someone who is fluent in Arabic in translating the Qur'an. The choice is yours.
At the end of verse 14.23 it says that; After the fetus is complete and I have described the steps, I will give it another creation. Another creation in the fetus is the entry of the soul into the fetus. More precisely, of course, the body material set of the fetus has a soul when it reaches the stage of development. And accepts the soul. Be careful ... I will make a logical argument from here that man can create a living being and cause the soul to enter the fetus. If you wait, I will tell you my ultimate goal in the next few posts. And I stand by my claim. And I'm willing to do what I say in the lab. Is this what you and all your friends want?

 

[heydarian saeed]

Oh, I'd forgotten about the fetus thing!
(Yes, it's all been said before.)
Yet again, the supposedly miraculously infallible Quran is wrong.
Heydarian: have you checked whether the bones are formed first, then covered in flesh, or the other way round?
I'm guessing you haven't.
One more question for you to ignore: Can you please quote a current, qualified and practising embryologist stating that the soul enters the embryo as you claim?
I'm guessing you can't do that either.
Fourth time of asking: are you able to read the Quran in the original Arabic, or are you relying on a translation?

Note: in 22.5 and 23.14 it tells exactly the stages of fetal growth and development in the Qur'an. I read the Qur'an in the original Arabic language fluently. But in its meaning, although I understand most of its words, I also get help from the common Persian and Latin meanings. But the interpretation of the verses of the Qur'an is another matter. It has special verbal skills - meaning and genius as well as familiarity with all the sciences mentioned in the Qur'an. Of course, complete scientific aristocracy is not needed because it belongs to scientists of any scientific field. But the interpretation and interpretation of the Qur'an needs to be familiar with this matter. In every Qur'anic article that I have quoted, I have also included a brief excerpt of the science of the day. Please read my posts carefully. And with fairness.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Also love the way we're back to 'this can all be proved in the laboratory', when heydarian has repeatedly said it can't.

No. You are not right. Patience. Patience.

 

[heydarian saeed]

To be fair, it's more like "do you expect me to prove this <fetal development stuff> in the lab?" but of course it's not the biology bit that's in question. It's the magical "explanation" bit.

No. I'm not a witch. And I do not like this action at all. I am not an immortal - not a spirit summoner - not a fortune teller - not a mythologist - not a demon possessor - not a connection with spirits - not a connection with the dead - not a fortune teller - not an ascetic or a person. I just read the Qur'an and adapt the new science to it and enjoy the scientific understanding. only this.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Here's the nature of the problem, heydarian saeed:

I have invented a teleporter. It looks like a broom cupboard, but when you step inside it transports you between two parallel universes. In one universe, God is real, demons and jinns are real, angels and souls are real. In the other universe none of those things are real, they are all simply imaginary, but many people imagine them to be real. The problem is I have no way to tell which universe I have been transported to. Can you use your laboratory to develop a test which will allow me to tell which universe I am in? Thanks.

Parallel worlds are together in this real world. Did you pay attention? We have an infinite other world in this world. But we do not understand any of them. Because our senses are not made to understand those parallel worlds. Did you pay attention? The human senses are made of matter. Do you accept this obvious principle? And he can only understand the material world. Did you pay attention? Therefore, human senses will never be able to understand, comprehend or see a world other than matter. Only he will be able to understand, see and comprehend the material world forever. This is a simple and obvious principle.
But to understand parallel worlds that we do not know what sex they are and how they are, but we just want to know that they exist and are not imaginary and are not mental and are not lies. The answer to these questions is possible only through logic and philosophy. And has answered all these questions. Please read a little philosophy and logic and follow the ways of proving the unknown in this way. Good luck.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Wibble = nonsense.

Haeckel is probably best known for his long-disproved/de-bunked notion of "ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny" to describe foetal development.

So I was describing one or 2 of your posts on foetal development as nonsense, which expressing a small measure of gratitude that you did not mention Haeckel's ideas, which some still do unfortunately.

Hi dear friend. No, it is not. Carefully read the answers in my post.

 

[junkshop]

These are made of delicate material and can be seen with special tools and technology with material tools.

Hi. Dear friend; First of all, you have to believe that there is a devil and a demon. If you do not believe in these, it will not be useful for you to see them. It is true? You say these objects are lies and they are not, so how do you want to see them with your own eyes? Does this make sense?
But if you believe that these exist outside, now you can say I want to see them. I will give myself an example for you to better understand this matter. I personally believe in the existence of devils and jinns. So I want to see them. This is the beginning of this demand. Now that I believe these are and I want to see, I have to have the capacity. This capacity means the ability to see and feel these. Because these are not sex like humans. Rather, they are a softer material with different shapes. If I do not have the ability to make these creatures of softer sex and different shapes
And I can not see the strange and wonderful, so I hurt my body and soul. And I'm hurt. And this is not logically correct. So I have to stop seeing these. And I do not seek to see these. It is enough to believe that they are.
Dear friend; I can't tell you and my friends what I mean better than this. I hope you understand what I mean. Thanks a lot

O, Heydarian, light of my life,

What about the 'special tools and technology'? You said they can be seen with 'special tools and technology'.

If I'm following your above post, belief in devils/demons/jinns along with the desire to see them gives one the capacity/ability to see them.

These creatures are made of softer material and/or sex(?) than humans, and you can't make them.

You can't see the 'strange and wonderful', and are injured, so have to stop seeing or wanting to see them because this isn't logical. Belief in their existence is enough.

I'm afraid I do understand what you mean. You are advocating for blind faith in the absence of evidence. I am disappointed, given that your original claim in this thread was that you had proof of the existence of the supernatural.

 

[heydarian saeed]

So the latest cut & pasted inaccurate 'scientific' screed (women have sperm, apparently) is an attempt to associate quickening with the arrival of a soul?

It just gets more and more desperate and pathetic.

Do not worry about me, dear friend of the association. I am ready to be beaten and beaten for my correct belief. And I see the ability in myself. But you said that women have sperm !! I did not understand what you meant at all. There is no such thing in the relevant content in my posts. Tell more clearly. With sincerity and thanks

 

[Cosmic Yak]

No. You are not right. Patience. Patience.

Your very first post, you said you had done research in the laboratory to prove the supernatural.

Look next at post 42. Do you not remember saying the supernatural could not be observed in the laboratory?

So, actually, yes, I am right, and all patience will bring me is time for you to contradict yourself yet again.

 

[Pixel42]

Do not worry about me, dear friend of the association. I am ready to be beaten and beaten for my correct belief.

That would be concerning even if your beliefs were correct, which they are not.

But you said that women have sperm !!

No, you said that. Or at least cut and pasted someone else saying it.

I did not understand what you meant at all. There is no such thing in the relevant content in my posts. Tell more clearly. With sincerity and thanks

It's right here:

The sperm is the first stage in the development of the fetus. And the first point of human origin. Which consists of the combination of male sperm with the first female sperm in the mother's womb, so-called fertilization process.

Your 'scientific' screeds are riddled with such mistakes. More importantly, they do not remotely support the claims you are making for them.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Oh, I'd forgotten about the fetus thing!
(Yes, it's all been said before.)
Yet again, the supposedly miraculously infallible Quran is wrong.
Heydarian: have you checked whether the bones are formed first, then covered in flesh, or the other way round?
I'm guessing you haven't.
One more question for you to ignore: Can you please quote a current, qualified and practising embryologist stating that the soul enters the embryo as you claim?
I'm guessing you can't do that either.
Fourth time of asking: are you able to read the Quran in the original Arabic, or are you relying on a translation?

Note: in 22.5 and 23.14 it tells exactly the stages of fetal growth and development in the Qur'an.

No, it doesn't. I asked you if you had checked this claim: clearly you haven't.

I read the Qur'an in the original Arabic language fluently. But in its meaning, although I understand most of its words, I also get help from the common Persian and Latin meanings. But the interpretation of the verses of the Qur'an is another matter.

So, at last, we get to the heart of the matter. It's not what the Quran says, per se, it's how you can twist it to support your claims.
You therefore do not have the right to say that your interpretation is better than anyone else's, especially when your interpretation is at odds with so many of the other translations and interpretations that have been made, and posted here.

It has special verbal skills - meaning and genius as well as familiarity with all the sciences mentioned in the Qur'an.

Given that you have already admitted you lack both verbal skills and familiarity with science, you are agan admitting that your own interpretation is invalid guesswork.
Now, how about quoting embryologists about the soul entering the embryo, as I asked? You did say this was part of modern science: now prove it.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Is miracle!

Hello dear friend, this is the first time I see you and I am happy. Of course, the Qur'an is a miracle, but not as you think, and you do not study the meaning of the verses correctly. I recommend you stay up to date.
Hi dear friend. This is the first time I see you and I am happy. Of course, the Qur'an is a miracle, but not as you think, and you do not study the meaning of the verses correctly. I recommend you stay up to date. There are no sperm in a woman. It has an egg and a uterus. Sperm is made in a man's testicles and enters a woman's uterus through sexual (or laboratory) intercourse. Fertilization is then performed between the two and sperm are formed. And then the embryonic stages go through. And after the completion of the fetal body in the uterus, it is able to receive the soul and the soul enters the fetal body and comes to life and its perceptions begin. This is what the Qur'an says. Nothing else.
Thanks for your post.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Yeah if it keeps getting more and more desperate and pathetic at this rate within only a few short hours it will reach the level of... *check notes* mainstream religious beliefs held by the majority of people.

This is crazy in tone and formatting and feel but "At some arbitrary point in our neonatal development God puts a magic soul in us" is perfectly mainstream.

As with all discussions of this type, I'm far less concerned with the number of people who obviously know this is crazy in this discussion and yet again wondering where all the people who believe the absolute exact same thing with no meaningful distinction or difference and who's sole differing factor is that they word it more calmly and in more socially acceptable language are at to defend them.

I can take every piece of crazy said in this thread and word, without functionally changing anything being said, in a way that most people (in America) would agree with.

Crazy/Sane should not just be a matter of how well you format your paragraph breaks.

Hi dear friend. Glad to see your post. This material has been prepared during the review of various scientific posts in reputable books and sites. And the verses of the Qur'an are in a documentary book written in the seventh century AD. There are no beliefs that are forced to be told to people. Everyone is willing to read and review. And has the right to choose in accepting its contents. Free Free. Does everyone have the intellect to see well and choose what is true and true?
I respect your opinion as much as you do. I also express my opinion: the Qur'an is a miracle. And I enjoy its contents. And I am very happy.

 

[heydarian saeed]

Absolutely true, that's most mainstream religion, but it's odd to have it dropped into a supposed proof of the existence of the supernatural. "Just accept this magical axiom and soon I'll prove magic is real" is surely among the most circular of arguments.

Unfortunately, you have removed the main words of my post and put your favorite words instead. I'm sorry. This is a cowardly practice. I wish you good health.

 

[Pixel42]

Was this bit addressed to me?

There are no sperm in a woman.

Correct. So you admit you did indeed make a mistake in the post I quoted.

It has an egg and a uterus. Sperm is made in a man's testicles and enters a woman's uterus through sexual (or laboratory) intercourse. Fertilization is then performed between the two and sperm are formed.

No, an embryo is formed. Another mistake.

And then the embryonic stages go through.

Yes.

And after the completion of the fetal body in the uterus, it is able to receive the soul and the soul enters the fetal body and comes to life and its perceptions begin.

This bit is not science, it is religious mumbo jumbo.

This is what the Qur'an says. Nothing else.

The religious mumbo jumbo bit is all the Qu'ran says, yes. There's no science in the Qu'ran, just religious mumbo jumbo.