The supernatural

[heydarian saeed]

... In the third month, the fetus is very similar to humans, and the body organs and the appearance of the limbs are formed. But so far no movement of the fetus is observed. And it just nourishes and grows physically. In other words, when a sperm is fertilized, it has only one type of "plant life." That is, it has only nourishment and growth and development, but there is no sense of feeling and movement which is a sign of "animal life" and also the power of perception which is a sign of "human life". And with evolution, the sperm in the womb reaches a stage where it begins to move, and gradually other human forces come to life. And is understandable and observable. During the first four months that the fetus grows, it only has physical growth and the cell grows into a piece of flesh.
In other words, the fetus has only plant life during this period
There are no signs of animal life (sensation and movement) and human life (perception). And as the sperm develops in the mother's womb, it reaches a stage where the signs of "animal life" and "human life" come to life. The last stage after the end of the physical creation of the fetus and more precisely after the balance and coordination of the body seems to be another creation, different from the physical development of the fetus.
Because at this stage the fetus can perceive and move. And this is the stage where the fetus has a soul. In fact, the fetus is able to accept the soul after completing the material and physical aspects. And in four months in that spirit, it emerges. And this is when the mother feels the movement of the fetus completely in her womb. Who had never felt any movement of the fetus. After emerging from the body, the soul undergoes stages of development and evolution, and finally manifests itself in six months as a single being in man. The personality of the human being finds meaning at the same time as he becomes spiritual. But the soul and how it originated in the body is an immaterial phenomenon.
This does not mean denying the impact and connection of this phenomenon or its symmetry with material and physical effects in humans. Therefore, it is possible that due to the close relationship between the soul and the body, it is possible to determine the occurrence of changes in the body through which one can guess the time of the soul or claim that in order for the fetus to become spiritual, it reaches a certain level of physical development. its necessary. Scientists all believe in the origin of the soul and the timing of the fetus to be about 120 days old. (In four months) the soul is the source of life. And this stage of evolution is not immaterial if not human, at least it is not the type of other stages of material and physical creation of man and it is the highest stage that leads to its life.
Many scientists believe that the soul has a reality other than this material body. Or it is of the type of matter more subtle than the matter of the physical world. And that in the last stage of the development of the fetus, a special creation occurs which is called the emergence of the soul. And is the source of human life and perception. The most important natural effect of the emergence of the soul in the fetus is the voluntary movement of the fetus in the womb, which is often understood by mothers after the end of the menstrual period.
Also, the activation of the perceptions of one of the five senses of the fetus, if realized, can be considered as a convincing analogy for the emergence of the soul; However, obtaining it normally and without careful scientific examinations and tests may be a difficult task. Heart palpitations, reflex movements (involuntary reactions), sex determination, and organ and penile completion. None of them alone are the cause of knowledge or assurance of the origin of the soul.
Organisms are made of inanimate molecules, and when these molecules are studied individually, they follow all known physical and chemical laws. While living things have traits that the simple accumulation of different substances together does not. What is the scientific justification for this? And how does science explain why?
According to the above, what is certain is that; The composition of living materials, taking into account all the appropriate conditions, is necessary to give balance, motion and ultimately life to a composite force, energy or matter superior to matter whose properties are not like matter and do not follow the laws of matter. This creature is nothing but a soul. Of course, we do not deny that; By forming and bonding living matter and reaching the point of evolution
The physical aspect is the soul. In fact, living matter must have all the necessary conditions and the ability to receive the soul in order for the soul to dissolve in it. (Enter)

 

[Jack by the hedge]

... at this stage the fetus can perceive and move. And this is the stage where the fetus has a soul.

I do not believe the soul is real. I believe it is an entirely imaginary concept. Can you convince me otherwise?

 

[heydarian saeed]

.

Quran surah 22.5 O Mankind! if ye have a doubt about the resurrection (consider) that we created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed, in order that we may manifest (our power) to you. And we cause whom we will to rest in the wombs for an appropriate term. Then do we bring you out as babes, then (foster you) That ye may reach your age of full strength; Translated By Yusuf Ali.

Anyone who believes this brief verse in the quran referring to the embryo is a revelation from God should study the writings of Galen. He was born in AD129 and his writings are a truly staggering insight into the workings of the human body for such a time. He discusses the function of the womb and the uterus, and the development of the embryo and foetus. Most of his knowledge came from observation and the dissection of animals, and most of his false assumptions doubtlessly come from the fact he did not dissect human bodies.
His works were originally written in Greek, but were translated into Latin and Arabic. Such knowledge was in the world 500 years before Muhammad's time, and Hippocrates made astounding medical observations one thousand years before Muhammad. Since surah 22 was reputedly revealed in Madinah, or during the later Makkan period Muhammad had already spent ten years or more aquiring the spoils of War, and it is known that books were highly prized items, so knowledge of Galen's writings could have been acquired from looted manuscripts.

Here are some brief extracts from Galens, On the natural faculties, book3. These texts being rich in detailed factual observations.

"For, as we know it takes nine months in most women for the foetus to attain maturity in the womb, this organ having its neck quite closed, and entirely surrounding the embryo together with the chorion."

The following quote shows Galen fully understood the role of sex in the reproductive process.

"The women believe they have received the semen which comes from the male, and they are retaining it."

Finally Galen shows that Hippocrates(c 460-c370 BC) before him was aware of details of pregnancy 500 years earlier.

"Hippocrates, who was the first of all physicians and philosophers to declare that the os uteri closes during pregnancy and inflammation."

Predating this detailed Greek scientific knowledge formed from observation and dissection of near human animals, the bible itself shows knowledge of the womb and conception.

The word womb appears 71 times in the King James Bible. Here are some pertinent extracts.

OT Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

OT Hosea 9:14 Give them, O Lord; what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.

NT Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

NT Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.

Here is one of many verses that states man was formed from dust.
OT Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the Ground,
The bible also talks of the seed of copulation at Leviticus 15:16 and 15:17 and 15:18. So there is no revelation in using the word sperm, and in fact other English translations, such as Pickthall use the word seed, not sperm, so the exact translation of the Arabic word makes no difference to the implication that such knowledge was in the world.
In short there is no new information in the quran concerning the birth process, unless one claims that the mention of a leech like clot of blood is a revelation that describes a new embryo. But for a man who had eleven wives, and was fully aware of the links between menstrual blood, and the lack of it during pregnancy, it only took one miscarriage for him to see a tiny foetus for himself. Therefore verse 22.5 of the quran did not require any revelation from God, as Muhammad could have been well aware of most of what is involved in the natural process of gestation.

Excellency. Is this translation of the Quran by Yusuf Ali or yourself ?! You will see in the continuation of my article what is real embryology? And how accurately it is stated in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, I have to say that you will not let me tell you the whole article and then criticize and criticize. How much are you and some friends in a hurry and prejudging? This is not good for you.
Of course, Galen has studied and expressed it from a medical point of view. And the judgment of their content is with embryologists, not you and me. But know that the Qur'an has discussed the topic of embryology up to date about the fetus and from another perspective that you and I should think and learn from its contents. I recommend that you put aside the meaning of Mr. Yousef Ali. Translate the Arabic text of the Quran yourself with Google. This is more realistic and without prejudice. Thank you and good luck.

 

[Carrot Flower King]

More wibble...But at least it didn't go down the Haeckel route. Small mercies.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I do not believe the soul is real. I believe it is an entirely imaginary concept. Can you convince me otherwise?[/QUOTE
Hi dear friend. A collection of living cells, although they have the power and ability to reproduce and proliferate and form the organs accordingly, but after the end of the organ building stage and the completion of the embryonic body, they can not create life and life. This is what embryology says. An external force and energy must give life to the fetal body in order to find life. This is when the soul enters the whole body of the fetus. And after that, the fetus begins to move and gain the ability to understand. And its time is between 4 to 6 months. A simple way to prove my point is to ask a pregnant woman how old she feels when the fetus moves in her womb?
Rest assured she will say at 4 to 6 months I can feel the movement of the fetus in her womb. In other words ; The fetus grows to 4 to 6 months of age based on the mechanism of growth and reproduction that is in the living cell and simulates and builds organs but lacks life! And at the age of 4 to 6 months, when it is complete, the soul enters it and the fetus comes to life and moves. And understands. (And in the mother's womb she sees and hears !!)
You can refer to embryology sources to check the accuracy of what I said in this regard.
Thanks

 

[heydarian saeed]

More wibble...But at least it didn't go down the Haeckel route. Small mercies.

I did not understand what you mean, dear friend. Tell more clearly.

 

[heydarian saeed]

... What is the Qur'an's view on this?
In several verses, the Qur'an refers to the stages of human creation and the development of the fetus, and in more than 76 verses, it deals with the emergence and creation of the fetus and its various stages of development. Among the existing religious texts, only in the Qur'an has the various stages of creation been presented step by step.
The Holy Quran describes the stages of the creation of the fetus; It expresses the sperm, the spleen, the mammary gland, the spleen, the spleen and the bloating of the soul, and considers the last stage after the end of the physical creation of the fetus and, more precisely, after the balance and harmony of the body. This issue is specifically mentioned in verses 12 to 14 of Surah Al-Mu'minun:
Translation: And certainly We created man from an extract of mud.(12)
Translation: Then We placed her [in the form of a sperm] in a firm position (womb)(13).
Translation: Then We made the sperm into a lump, then We made that lump into a chewing gum, and then We made the cheekbone into bones, then We covered the bones with flesh, then We created another creature.(14)
In these verses, the stages of creation of each person are considered separately; That is, the creation of man from the soil means that there is food in the soil and the food is converted into sperm, so the food from the soil is the origin of the sperm and the sperm is the origin of man. That is, soil is the distant (unlikely) source of human creation, and sperm is the immediate source of man. Then in verse 14 he describes the development of the fetus step by step. And after four stages, the physical aspect of the fetus is complete. And here he says: We give him another (new) creation which is an extract and evolution of the previous stages. We see him say, "I make the same material body of the fetus something else. And I give another creation." And he praises this beautiful and perfect creation. And calls himself the best Creator.
A brief, documented report from the latest embryological research on the formation of bones and muscles and the completion of body parts revealed that the formation of bones (greatness) ends before the muscles (fat) and the fetus after the completion of this The components, after the end of the fourth month (sixteen weeks) and during the fifth month, take on a perfect appearance and are considered a mature fetus (Machur).
Then, during the fifth month, the mother feels well the movements of the fetus, which is a sign that the soul has entered (the soul is blown).
The findings of the new knowledge are clearly a confirmation of the valuable teachings of the Qur'an. Even hearing some sounds after the end of the sixth month and the sensitivity of the eyes to light after the end of the seventh month lead us to the subtleties of the following verse, which are the blowing of the soul after the balance of the body, From the entry of the soul, he has stated, he draws closer:
...

 

[Lothian]

Excellency. Is this translation of the Quran by Yusuf Ali or yourself ?! You will see in the continuation of my article what is real embryology? And how accurately it is stated in the Qur'an. Unfortunately, I have to say that you will not let me tell you the whole article and then criticize and criticize. How much are you and some friends in a hurry and prejudging? This is not good for you.
Of course, Galen has studied and expressed it from a medical point of view. And the judgment of their content is with embryologists, not you and me. But know that the Qur'an has discussed the topic of embryology up to date about the fetus and from another perspective that you and I should think and learn from its contents. I recommend that you put aside the meaning of Mr. Yousef Ali. Translate the Arabic text of the Quran yourself with Google. This is more realistic and without prejudice. Thank you and good luck.

Why should we wait for more when what you have produced is so full of mistakes. It is all nonsense. No respected journal would go near your article. What it's the point of this thread. You don't take on board criticism, no one is convinced. A waste of time for all.

 

[Scorpion]

I do not believe the soul is real. I believe it is an entirely imaginary concept. Can you convince me otherwise?[/QUOTE
Hi dear friend. A collection of living cells, although they have the power and ability to reproduce and proliferate and form the organs accordingly, but after the end of the organ building stage and the completion of the embryonic body, they can not create life and life. This is what embryology says. An external force and energy must give life to the fetal body in order to find life. This is when the soul enters the whole body of the fetus. And after that, the fetus begins to move and gain the ability to understand. And its time is between 4 to 6 months. A simple way to prove my point is to ask a pregnant woman how old she feels when the fetus moves in her womb?
Rest assured she will say at 4 to 6 months I can feel the movement of the fetus in her womb. In other words ; The fetus grows to 4 to 6 months of age based on the mechanism of growth and reproduction that is in the living cell and simulates and builds organs but lacks life! And at the age of 4 to 6 months, when it is complete, the soul enters it and the fetus comes to life and moves. And understands. (And in the mother's womb she sees and hears !!)
You can refer to embryology sources to check the accuracy of what I said in this regard.
Thanks

I have attended trance lectures by spiritualist mediums, who purportedly were taken in trance by their spirit guides who spoke through the mediums.

On the subject of when the spirit is attached to the embryo the consensus was that it takes place at conception. Strangely enough the catholic church also teaches the same thing.

 

[heydarian saeed]

... (Surah Sajdeh : verse 9)
Translation: Then He made him equal, and breathed into him of His spirit, and made for you ears, eyes, and hearts; But you are less grateful for his blessings.
Medically, the first ossification center is established in the sixth week of embryonic life in the clavicle (bone) and gradually develops in different areas of ossification; By the eleventh week, almost all the bones are made. Of course, in girls, ossification begins sooner and ends sooner.
At the seventeenth week, the last bone point is made in the heel bone. As bones build, so do muscles. After the 18th week, the ossification centers are completely covered with muscles, and it is at this stage that the fetus is fully skeletal (bone and muscle) and takes on a complete appearance, and according to forensic medicine, the fetus has reached the age of sixteen to twenty weeks. Machur).
According to what has been said, it can be said that the Qur'an in the seventh century AD, has described and expressed the most accurate and complete process of how man was created from a fetus. And the entry of the soul into the body of the fetus, which is a sign of his life.
Moore, an embryologist, knows the exact stages of embryonic development in the Qur'an; Because he believes that this division speaks of a clear and obvious principle in fetal development; For this reason, in his book, he has used the division of the Qur'an as a criterion. And knows right.
The soul is not subject to the laws of matter. While it is mixed with the body of the fetus, it is also not of the female sex. Therefore, it is not visible. But from its effects, which is the movement and perception of the fetus, we realize the existence of the soul in the fetus. In the same way, at the time of human death, when all vital signs have ceased, we realize that the soul has left the body. And death has occurred.
In fact, the human body has lost the ability to hold the soul and can not hold it. Therefore, the soul leaves the body. The question may be asked are those who can remove the soul from their body while they are alive. What kind of process is this? I have no answer in this regard. And human science has not yet understood this.
But the same thing happens during human sleep. I said in the text of the article that human sleep is not material. And it is supernatural. And my reason was that in a dream, we fly or we see the future and the past. And this action is not made of nerve neurons. And science still has no justification for it.
Can man create a living being ?!
We must first examine the life of a living being. Two important features of life must be considered in all theories of abiogenesis. These features are replication and metabolism. The question of which of the two arose in the first place gave rise to two different theories in this field. First, the hypothesis proposing the priority of metabolism (metabolism) was proposed. Some time later, the initial creation hypothesis of replicators was also considered.
In the modern understanding of the first forms of living organisms, it is possible that these organisms were unicellular prokaryotes (without a cell nucleus). These single cells themselves can be made up of protobions, organic molecules covered by a membrane-like coating. The oldest known microbial fossil found is about three and a half billion years old, almost one billion years after the formation of the Earth.
About 2.4 billion years ago the ratio of stable carbon isotopes,
Iron and sulfur indicate the effect of living organisms on minerals and sediments. Other molecular markers indicate the presence of photosynthesis at that time, which indicates the wide distribution of life at that time on Earth.
...

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I do not believe the soul is real. I believe it is an entirely imaginary concept. Can you convince me otherwise?[/QUOTE
Hi dear friend. A collection of living cells, although they have the power and ability to reproduce and proliferate and form the organs accordingly, but after the end of the organ building stage and the completion of the embryonic body, they can not create life and life. This is what embryology says. An external force and energy must give life to the fetal body in order to find life. This is when the soul enters the whole body of the fetus. And after that, the fetus begins to move and gain the ability to understand. And its time is between 4 to 6 months. A simple way to prove my point is to ask a pregnant woman how old she feels when the fetus moves in her womb?
Rest assured she will say at 4 to 6 months I can feel the movement of the fetus in her womb. In other words ; The fetus grows to 4 to 6 months of age based on the mechanism of growth and reproduction that is in the living cell and simulates and builds organs but lacks life! And at the age of 4 to 6 months, when it is complete, the soul enters it and the fetus comes to life and moves. And understands. (And in the mother's womb she sees and hears !!)
You can refer to embryology sources to check the accuracy of what I said in this regard.
Thanks

The developing fetus is always alive. Your view is that it gains the ability to move when some external entity you call a "soul" enters it. I think that is a claim without evidence and I do not think it is true. Your repeating the claim seems not to have changed my mind.

 

[heydarian saeed]

I have attended trance lectures by spiritualist mediums, who purportedly were taken in trance by their spirit guides who spoke through the mediums.

On the subject of when the spirit is attached to the embryo the consensus was that it takes place at conception. Strangely enough the catholic church also teaches the same thing.

No dear friend. This is not the case. The fetal body cannot receive the soul until it has reached the stage of organ completion (except for genetic defects that have medical reasons, such as mutations). Note: The body must be complete and ready for the soul to enter. And in the human fetus, the fetus enters the uterus at 4 to 6 months of age. At the time of fertilization, only the living cell grows and multiplies due to the presence of acid amines and DNA. And it is in the nature of a living cell. Without understanding. In fact, it is a chemical interaction and lacks life and understanding. And later, at the age I said, the soul enters and comes to life and understands.
Read my full article. I explain everything. read. read.
Thanks

 

[heydarian saeed]

The developing fetus is always alive. Your view is that it gains the ability to move when some external entity you call a "soul" enters it. I think that is a claim without evidence and I do not think it is true. Your repeating the claim seems not to have changed my mind.

Wait for me to finish talking in the article. I will tell you evidence from scientists. This movement of the fetus up to 4 to 6 months is only due to cell growth and proliferation, and it makes the organs look like cells, and it is instinctive. Without understanding. Life is brought by the soul. And the movement of the fetus and the perception of the fetus's senses of the soul.

 

[heydarian saeed]

The developing fetus is always alive. Your view is that it gains the ability to move when some external entity you call a "soul" enters it. I think that is a claim without evidence and I do not think it is true. Your repeating the claim seems not to have changed my mind.

Do you want to prove to you in the laboratory that at 4 to 6 months, when the soul enters the body of the fetus, it begins to move and the perception of the senses begins? Didn't you ask this question to a pregnant mother? When the fetus feels the movement in the uterus. That was the easiest way I said it.

 

[Scorpion]

The Quran says nothing about the embryo that was not known 500 years before Muhammad. (see my post 640 ) Also sperm does not come from between the backbone and the ribs. So the Quran is wrong.

 

[junkshop]

Sweet Heydarian,
You brought up your mythical boogeymen, so don't be suprised if people ask you to back up your claims about them.

As you have repeated those claims, I ask again for your evidence that they are natural, and would also like to know what are these 'special tools and technology' that can see them?

ETA: While I am flattered that you like me, your religion teaches that you shouldn't, what with my being an unbeliever and all. I wouldn't want you to risk your eternal reward over my undeniable likeability.

Hello. Of course, I admire you for being positive. But do not exaggerate about me. I am a human being like all of you and I love all of you with a sense of humanity. I am not a mythologist and I do not have a mythical child! What you want me to show you is evidence. Before you have specific skills and technology, you must have the capacity and the belief. Do you have

Dearest darling Heydarian,

How did I exaggerate about you? I don't understand that comment.
What must I believe in before you can tell me what the 'special tools and technology' are, and why must I believe it before you can tell me what they are?
What 'capacity' do I lack? I'm not sure I like the implication in that statement.

 

[Susheel]

Dearest darling Heydarian,

How did I exaggerate about you? I don't understand that comment.
What must I believe in before you can tell me what the 'special tools and technology' are, and why must I believe it before you can tell me what they are?
What 'capacity' do I lack? I'm not sure I like the implication in that statement.

You

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Do you want to prove to you in the laboratory that at 4 to 6 months, when the soul enters the body of the fetus, it begins to move and the perception of the senses begins? Didn't you ask this question to a pregnant mother? When the fetus feels the movement in the uterus. That was the easiest way I said it.

I want you to prove exactly one part of that. I want you to prove "the soul enters the body of the fetus" instead of just assuming it as an explanation of development.

 

[Scorpion]

No dear friend. This is not the case. The fetal body cannot receive the soul until it has reached the stage of organ completion (except for genetic defects that have medical reasons, such as mutations). Note: The body must be complete and ready for the soul to enter. And in the human fetus, the fetus enters the uterus at 4 to 6 months of age. At the time of fertilization, only the living cell grows and multiplies due to the presence of acid amines and DNA. And it is in the nature of a living cell. Without understanding. In fact, it is a chemical interaction and lacks life and understanding. And later, at the age I said, the soul enters and comes to life and understands.
Read my full article. I explain everything. read. read.
Thanks

So you know better than the spirit world ? Where did you get the idea the fetus cannot receive the soul until 4 to 6 months. I do not think it is in the Quran

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Oh, I'd forgotten about the fetus thing!
(Yes, it's all been said before.)
Yet again, the supposedly miraculously infallible Quran is wrong.
Heydarian: have you checked whether the bones are formed first, then covered in flesh, or the other way round?
I'm guessing you haven't.
One more question for you to ignore: Can you please quote a current, qualified and practising embryologist stating that the soul enters the embryo as you claim?
I'm guessing you can't do that either.
Fourth time of asking: are you able to read the Quran in the original Arabic, or are you relying on a translation?