Carrot Flower King
Janitor of Lunacy
Sartre and Camus would like a word or 2 with you about that one...
The supernatural
- Thread starter heydarian saeed
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Sartre and Camus would like a word or 2 with you about that one...
Carrot Flower King
Janitor of Lunacy
This makes even less sense than your post I quoted and has nothing to do with what I wrote.
Why might that be?
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
Read his post again:
He uses the word 'material' twice, and absolutely says they can be seen with the use of technology.
Hence my request for photos or videos.
Andy_Ross
Penultimate Amazing
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Did she die in vain?
Susheel
Illuminator
So, as usual he contradicts what he says in the very same post. Oops...we are talking about a person who manages to affirm two mutually contradictory ideas in a single sentence.
I think he has just come across those late 19th early 20th Century "ectoplasm" photos on the internet.
MarkCorrigan
Героям слава!
Heydarian, you're back!
Answer my questions please. Stop ignoring my points.
Answer my questions please. Stop ignoring my points.
CY and Susheel: You guys just aren't with the program! Heydarian says it's his philosophical OPINION that there're angels and jinns. It's also his opinion that they're made of real stuff, and that you can (in his opinion) see them with real machinery kinds of things in real labs.
I don't know if it's his opinion that you'll get hurt messing with this stuff, or if he's sending you a little friendly message that if don't watch yerselfs you could get a visit from the Quranic Qops. Naturally, I have no opinion about that. I ain't no foolhardy dummy.
I don't know if it's his opinion that you'll get hurt messing with this stuff, or if he's sending you a little friendly message that if don't watch yerselfs you could get a visit from the Quranic Qops. Naturally, I have no opinion about that. I ain't no foolhardy dummy.
Last edited:
LongFuzzy
Critical Thinker
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- 401
If the Qur'an has the scientific knowledge alleged, then one should be able to predict something that science has yet to discover. So heydarian, I challenge you to tell us what has science yet to discover, that you can read about in the Qur'an?
Jack by the hedge
Safely Ignored
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All right, let's talk about posts 367 and 418. That was no proof. It was nonsense.
In 367 you claimed that human knowledge is not a form of matter. So what? Electromagnetic radiation is not a from of matter either but it's real and it's natural. Then you swerved into a claim that philosophers say "science originates from the human soul". Why should we care what nonsense these unidentified philosophers might say about a "soul" for which there is no evidence of its existence? What do you imagine this proved? Absolutely nothing.
In 418 you ask "What is the supernatural world really? And what is the soul, the angel and the jinn? Are these lies?".
Yes. Yes, these are lies. They are just pretend. Not real. Once again this contains no proof of the supernatural.
If you would like to present some actual evidence for the existence of the supernatural please go right ahead, but kindly do not pretend you have done so already because you have not.
Susheel
Illuminator
So what he's actually trying to prove here us that he has got an opinion on these things?
Susheel
Illuminator
Frankly, I still think what he wants to prove is that is that Islam is the "bestest religion in the world."
Good God Allnightly,
every religionist wants to do that. In a sense, they all succeed.
every religionist wants to do that. In a sense, they all succeed.
Cosmic Yak
Philosopher
And not for the first time.
'You can, and cannot, prove the supernatural with experimental science.'
'I have, and have not, done this.'
'I have, and do not have, a lab.'
'I do, and do not, support any particular sect, religion or book.'
'I am, and am not, proud.'
This is what happens when you employ arguments made by others, that you cannot fully understand because they weren't written in your first language, and that don't make a great deal of sense in any language.
Strange that the Quran did not predict this.
Susheel
Illuminator
I know. Just stating that his original claim of a having laboratory based evidentiary proof of the supernatural was just the foot in the door to ultimately proselytize.
Kind of reminds me of the old Conan sketches with the door-to-door salesman.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello. Continue the article:
A new topic:
Let us return to the laboratory from space and sky. Here I raise a new discussion. And my goal is to really see the supernatural in the lab !! Are you ready? Given what I will tell you, I believe that; Man can experience and see the supernatural in the laboratory!
Although many ways
It is difficult and requires a lot of effort, but it is possible. My discussion is about the following question. And like the topic of 11 scientific truths in the Qur'an, about which I presented material, I prefer to answer this question with the logic of the Qur'an and with the opinion of the relevant scientists.
Is human existence only of matter?
One of the issues that man always thinks about is life and death. Many questions arise in the human mind: Does life come into being when living things come together to create all the right living conditions? What is life? Who is in charge of life? Where does it come from? And when did it happen? Can matter create life? Who really created creation? Who's human life and death? Is the human soul also made of matter? When and how does man have a soul? In the continuation of the above discussion, can man create a living being? Can he simulate himself?
To answer these questions, there are many articles and materials that have been reviewed. But to answer the question man is only of matter? We need to review some cases in this regard.
Let us first briefly examine the "evolution of the human fetus."
Despite all its advances, embryology has not yet been able to unravel many of the complex secrets of the fetus. And the evolutionary stages of the fetus have been a mystery to humans for centuries.
The sperm is the first stage in the development of the fetus. And the first point of human origin. Which consists of the combination of male sperm with the first female sperm in the mother's womb, so-called fertilization process. These sex cells are made up of nutrients in nature and matter in the body of man and woman. Developmental psychologists describe periods and stages of human development that range from the moment of sperm coagulation to old age. And some other psychologists have expressed other divisions according to a particular aspect of development. Among the divisions they have outlined for growth, the most sensitive and fundamental is the prenatal period.
Which has stages and each stage has its own characteristics. First: the prenatal period. Second: childhood. Third: Adolescence. Fourth: Adulthood. Fifth: The period of aging. The prenatal stage or sperm formation; This stage (zygote) is characterized by implantation and placement of sperm in the wall of the uterus. In the embryonic stage; Cell divisions take place and during this stage, the main organs of the body are made. Embryonic stage; This stage begins with the formation of bone cells. This stage is from the beginning of the third month until birth. The fetus undergoes a series of changes in different months of this period, the details of which vary from the third to the ninth month (month of birth). And has its own details.
A new topic:
Let us return to the laboratory from space and sky. Here I raise a new discussion. And my goal is to really see the supernatural in the lab !! Are you ready? Given what I will tell you, I believe that; Man can experience and see the supernatural in the laboratory!
Although many ways
It is difficult and requires a lot of effort, but it is possible. My discussion is about the following question. And like the topic of 11 scientific truths in the Qur'an, about which I presented material, I prefer to answer this question with the logic of the Qur'an and with the opinion of the relevant scientists.
Is human existence only of matter?
One of the issues that man always thinks about is life and death. Many questions arise in the human mind: Does life come into being when living things come together to create all the right living conditions? What is life? Who is in charge of life? Where does it come from? And when did it happen? Can matter create life? Who really created creation? Who's human life and death? Is the human soul also made of matter? When and how does man have a soul? In the continuation of the above discussion, can man create a living being? Can he simulate himself?
To answer these questions, there are many articles and materials that have been reviewed. But to answer the question man is only of matter? We need to review some cases in this regard.
Let us first briefly examine the "evolution of the human fetus."
Despite all its advances, embryology has not yet been able to unravel many of the complex secrets of the fetus. And the evolutionary stages of the fetus have been a mystery to humans for centuries.
The sperm is the first stage in the development of the fetus. And the first point of human origin. Which consists of the combination of male sperm with the first female sperm in the mother's womb, so-called fertilization process. These sex cells are made up of nutrients in nature and matter in the body of man and woman. Developmental psychologists describe periods and stages of human development that range from the moment of sperm coagulation to old age. And some other psychologists have expressed other divisions according to a particular aspect of development. Among the divisions they have outlined for growth, the most sensitive and fundamental is the prenatal period.
Which has stages and each stage has its own characteristics. First: the prenatal period. Second: childhood. Third: Adolescence. Fourth: Adulthood. Fifth: The period of aging. The prenatal stage or sperm formation; This stage (zygote) is characterized by implantation and placement of sperm in the wall of the uterus. In the embryonic stage; Cell divisions take place and during this stage, the main organs of the body are made. Embryonic stage; This stage begins with the formation of bone cells. This stage is from the beginning of the third month until birth. The fetus undergoes a series of changes in different months of this period, the details of which vary from the third to the ninth month (month of birth). And has its own details.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hello. Of course, I admire you for being positive. But do not exaggerate about me. I am a human being like all of you and I love all of you with a sense of humanity. I am not a mythologist and I do not have a mythical child! What you want me to show you is evidence. Before you have specific skills and technology, you must have the capacity and the belief. Do you have
Scorpion
Illuminator
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,818
So where are your Quran quotes about sperm and such? because I have written a piece on this matter. For openers here is what the Quran says.
Surah's
86.6 He is created from a drop emitted
86.7 Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs.
This is completely wrong.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
... Continue the article:
A new topic:
Let us return to the laboratory from space and sky. Here I raise a new discussion. And my goal is to really see the supernatural in the lab !! Are you ready? Given what I will tell you, I believe that; Man can experience and see the supernatural in the laboratory!
Although many ways
It is difficult and requires a lot of effort, but it is possible. My discussion is about the following question. And like the topic of 11 scientific truths in the Qur'an, about which I presented material, I prefer to answer this question with the logic of the Qur'an and with the opinion of the relevant scientists.
Is human existence only of matter?
One of the issues that man always thinks about is life and death. Many questions arise in the human mind: Does life come into being when living things come together to create all the right living conditions? What is life? Who is in charge of life? Where does it come from? And when did it happen? Can matter create life? Who really created creation? Who's human life and death? Is the human soul also made of matter? When and how does man have a soul? In the continuation of the above discussion, can man create a living being? Can he simulate himself?
To answer these questions, there are many articles and materials that have been reviewed. But to answer the question man is only of matter? We need to review some cases in this regard.
Let us first briefly examine the "evolution of the human fetus."
Despite all its advances, embryology has not yet been able to unravel many of the complex secrets of the fetus. And the evolutionary stages of the fetus have been a mystery to humans for centuries.
The sperm is the first stage in the development of the fetus. And the first point of human origin. Which consists of the combination of male sperm with the first female sperm in the mother's womb, so-called fertilization process. These sex cells are made up of nutrients in nature and matter in the body of man and woman. Developmental psychologists describe periods and stages of human development that range from the moment of sperm coagulation to old age. And some other psychologists have expressed other divisions according to a particular aspect of development. Among the divisions they have outlined for growth, the most sensitive and fundamental is the prenatal period.
Which has stages and each stage has its own characteristics. First: the prenatal period. Second: childhood. Third: Adolescence. Fourth: Adulthood. Fifth: The period of aging. The prenatal stage or sperm formation; This stage (zygote) is characterized by implantation and placement of sperm in the wall of the uterus. In the embryonic stage; Cell divisions take place and during this stage, the main organs of the body are made. Embryonic stage; This stage begins with the formation of bone cells. This stage is from the beginning of the third month until birth. The fetus undergoes a series of changes in different months of this period, the details of which vary from the third to the ninth month (month of birth). And has its own details.
A new topic:
Let us return to the laboratory from space and sky. Here I raise a new discussion. And my goal is to really see the supernatural in the lab !! Are you ready? Given what I will tell you, I believe that; Man can experience and see the supernatural in the laboratory!
Although many ways
It is difficult and requires a lot of effort, but it is possible. My discussion is about the following question. And like the topic of 11 scientific truths in the Qur'an, about which I presented material, I prefer to answer this question with the logic of the Qur'an and with the opinion of the relevant scientists.
Is human existence only of matter?
One of the issues that man always thinks about is life and death. Many questions arise in the human mind: Does life come into being when living things come together to create all the right living conditions? What is life? Who is in charge of life? Where does it come from? And when did it happen? Can matter create life? Who really created creation? Who's human life and death? Is the human soul also made of matter? When and how does man have a soul? In the continuation of the above discussion, can man create a living being? Can he simulate himself?
To answer these questions, there are many articles and materials that have been reviewed. But to answer the question man is only of matter? We need to review some cases in this regard.
Let us first briefly examine the "evolution of the human fetus."
Despite all its advances, embryology has not yet been able to unravel many of the complex secrets of the fetus. And the evolutionary stages of the fetus have been a mystery to humans for centuries.
The sperm is the first stage in the development of the fetus. And the first point of human origin. Which consists of the combination of male sperm with the first female sperm in the mother's womb, so-called fertilization process. These sex cells are made up of nutrients in nature and matter in the body of man and woman. Developmental psychologists describe periods and stages of human development that range from the moment of sperm coagulation to old age. And some other psychologists have expressed other divisions according to a particular aspect of development. Among the divisions they have outlined for growth, the most sensitive and fundamental is the prenatal period.
Which has stages and each stage has its own characteristics. First: the prenatal period. Second: childhood. Third: Adolescence. Fourth: Adulthood. Fifth: The period of aging. The prenatal stage or sperm formation; This stage (zygote) is characterized by implantation and placement of sperm in the wall of the uterus. In the embryonic stage; Cell divisions take place and during this stage, the main organs of the body are made. Embryonic stage; This stage begins with the formation of bone cells. This stage is from the beginning of the third month until birth. The fetus undergoes a series of changes in different months of this period, the details of which vary from the third to the ninth month (month of birth). And has its own details.
heydarian saeed
Graduate Poster
Hi. Do not rush dear friend. This is also stated in the Qur'an. And it is approved by all embryologists ... !! Do not hurry. be patient.
Scorpion
Illuminator
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2013
- Messages
- 3,818
.
Quran surah 22.5 O Mankind! if ye have a doubt about the resurrection (consider) that we created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed, in order that we may manifest (our power) to you. And we cause whom we will to rest in the wombs for an appropriate term. Then do we bring you out as babes, then (foster you) That ye may reach your age of full strength; Translated By Yusuf Ali.
Anyone who believes this brief verse in the quran referring to the embryo is a revelation from God should study the writings of Galen. He was born in AD129 and his writings are a truly staggering insight into the workings of the human body for such a time. He discusses the function of the womb and the uterus, and the development of the embryo and foetus. Most of his knowledge came from observation and the dissection of animals, and most of his false assumptions doubtlessly come from the fact he did not dissect human bodies.
His works were originally written in Greek, but were translated into Latin and Arabic. Such knowledge was in the world 500 years before Muhammad's time, and Hippocrates made astounding medical observations one thousand years before Muhammad. Since surah 22 was reputedly revealed in Madinah, or during the later Makkan period Muhammad had already spent ten years or more aquiring the spoils of War, and it is known that books were highly prized items, so knowledge of Galen's writings could have been acquired from looted manuscripts.
Here are some brief extracts from Galens, On the natural faculties, book3. These texts being rich in detailed factual observations.
"For, as we know it takes nine months in most women for the foetus to attain maturity in the womb, this organ having its neck quite closed, and entirely surrounding the embryo together with the chorion."
The following quote shows Galen fully understood the role of sex in the reproductive process.
"The women believe they have received the semen which comes from the male, and they are retaining it."
Finally Galen shows that Hippocrates(c 460-c370 BC) before him was aware of details of pregnancy 500 years earlier.
"Hippocrates, who was the first of all physicians and philosophers to declare that the os uteri closes during pregnancy and inflammation."
Predating this detailed Greek scientific knowledge formed from observation and dissection of near human animals, the bible itself shows knowledge of the womb and conception.
The word womb appears 71 times in the King James Bible. Here are some pertinent extracts.
OT Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
OT Hosea 9:14 Give them, O Lord; what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
NT Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
NT Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.
Here is one of many verses that states man was formed from dust.
OT Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the Ground,
The bible also talks of the seed of copulation at Leviticus 15:16 and 15:17 and 15:18. So there is no revelation in using the word sperm, and in fact other English translations, such as Pickthall use the word seed, not sperm, so the exact translation of the Arabic word makes no difference to the implication that such knowledge was in the world.
In short there is no new information in the quran concerning the birth process, unless one claims that the mention of a leech like clot of blood is a revelation that describes a new embryo. But for a man who had eleven wives, and was fully aware of the links between menstrual blood, and the lack of it during pregnancy, it only took one miscarriage for him to see a tiny foetus for himself. Therefore verse 22.5 of the quran did not require any revelation from God, as Muhammad could have been well aware of most of what is involved in the natural process of gestation.
Quran surah 22.5 O Mankind! if ye have a doubt about the resurrection (consider) that we created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh partly formed and partly unformed, in order that we may manifest (our power) to you. And we cause whom we will to rest in the wombs for an appropriate term. Then do we bring you out as babes, then (foster you) That ye may reach your age of full strength; Translated By Yusuf Ali.
Anyone who believes this brief verse in the quran referring to the embryo is a revelation from God should study the writings of Galen. He was born in AD129 and his writings are a truly staggering insight into the workings of the human body for such a time. He discusses the function of the womb and the uterus, and the development of the embryo and foetus. Most of his knowledge came from observation and the dissection of animals, and most of his false assumptions doubtlessly come from the fact he did not dissect human bodies.
His works were originally written in Greek, but were translated into Latin and Arabic. Such knowledge was in the world 500 years before Muhammad's time, and Hippocrates made astounding medical observations one thousand years before Muhammad. Since surah 22 was reputedly revealed in Madinah, or during the later Makkan period Muhammad had already spent ten years or more aquiring the spoils of War, and it is known that books were highly prized items, so knowledge of Galen's writings could have been acquired from looted manuscripts.
Here are some brief extracts from Galens, On the natural faculties, book3. These texts being rich in detailed factual observations.
"For, as we know it takes nine months in most women for the foetus to attain maturity in the womb, this organ having its neck quite closed, and entirely surrounding the embryo together with the chorion."
The following quote shows Galen fully understood the role of sex in the reproductive process.
"The women believe they have received the semen which comes from the male, and they are retaining it."
Finally Galen shows that Hippocrates(c 460-c370 BC) before him was aware of details of pregnancy 500 years earlier.
"Hippocrates, who was the first of all physicians and philosophers to declare that the os uteri closes during pregnancy and inflammation."
Predating this detailed Greek scientific knowledge formed from observation and dissection of near human animals, the bible itself shows knowledge of the womb and conception.
The word womb appears 71 times in the King James Bible. Here are some pertinent extracts.
OT Jeremiah 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
OT Hosea 9:14 Give them, O Lord; what wilt thou give? give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts.
NT Luke 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.
NT Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost.
Here is one of many verses that states man was formed from dust.
OT Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man out of the dust of the Ground,
The bible also talks of the seed of copulation at Leviticus 15:16 and 15:17 and 15:18. So there is no revelation in using the word sperm, and in fact other English translations, such as Pickthall use the word seed, not sperm, so the exact translation of the Arabic word makes no difference to the implication that such knowledge was in the world.
In short there is no new information in the quran concerning the birth process, unless one claims that the mention of a leech like clot of blood is a revelation that describes a new embryo. But for a man who had eleven wives, and was fully aware of the links between menstrual blood, and the lack of it during pregnancy, it only took one miscarriage for him to see a tiny foetus for himself. Therefore verse 22.5 of the quran did not require any revelation from God, as Muhammad could have been well aware of most of what is involved in the natural process of gestation.
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