The Jan. 6 Investigation

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Ziggurat said:
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
An attempted coup doesn't have to be coordinated or well organized.
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In principle, it's logically possible for such an attempt to be purely spur of the moment. But that wasn't what was under discussion. Going back one more post in the exchange, this is what theprestige asked about, which Parsman's post was in response to:

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Tell me more. Tell me about the coup plot. Tell me about the conspiracy to assassinate government officials. Who were the ringleaders of this plot? Who were the operatives? Where are the informers who blew the conspiracy wide open?
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"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."​
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I wasn't discussing Parsman's statement about assassinating gov't officials. That's why I didn't quote it or reply to it. My reply was to your post regarding the FBI report and whether it was an attempted coup or not.

The FBI only says they were disorganized and had no clear plans about what they were going to do after they stopped the verification. But that's the Proud Boys' et al. own incompetency and short-sightedness. No one has ever accused them of being smart. That does not mean they weren't trying to overturn the election. What else do you think "Stop the Steal" means? That they were against shoplifting? Identification theft?
 
Ziggurat said:
I was. That was the whole point of my post.
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You were responding to what he said in his second post, not his first, which did not include the bit about assassinating gov't officials. That's why you quoted his second post in your reply to him. That is what I was responding to. This really isn't that difficult.
 
carlitos said:
Yeah, it's really weird that a coup planned by Rudy Giuliani, Mo Brooks, Ali Alexander and the lady from Publix would be so poorly coordinated.
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In my opinion, Trump and his followers would have trouble planning how to pack a school lunchbox. (Hey, anybody, does the sandwich go on the top or the bottom?) :rolleyes: The operative word being plan, which implies some level of competence. Although, sometimes by chance alone they might get it right. Hence the scary nature of January 6.
 
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Ziggurat said:
In principle, it's logically possible for such an attempt to be purely spur of the moment. But that wasn't what was under discussion. Going back one more post in the exchange, this is what theprestige asked about, which Parsman's post was in response to:



A plot does need to be organized, even if not well organized. But even the conspiracies which were organized (though not well) were apparently not conspiracies to commit a coup or assassinate government officials. Quoting from my link:

"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."​
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If that is the case, then it makes Brooks, Giuliani and Trump even more culpable for what happened. They can no longer hide behind a claim that the insurrectionists had already plotted ahead of time and they that had nothing to do with those plans.

The lack of a defined goal that the insurrectionists wanted to achieve means it can be argued even more strongly that Giuliani's "trial by combat" comment, Brooks' act of imploring people to "Kick some ass and take some names" and Trump's direction to the crowd to march on the capitol, "fight like hell" and "take back our country" shows it was they who incited the insurrection.
 
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most activist conspiracists, but especially the TrumpRightFOP, are Underpant Gomes at heart: they assume that their profit/prophet will come if they just do x,y and z.
In that sense, the Jan 6th insurrection was planned as well as was possible.
 
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Ziggurat said:
<snip>

"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."​
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Not unlike a dog chasing a passing car.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
most activist conspiracists, but especially the TrumpRightFOP, are Underpant Gomes at heart: they assume that their profit/prophet will come if they just do x,y and z.
In that sense, the Jan 6th insurrection was planned as well as was possible.
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For Years Jerome Corsi, has been saying Trump had a Secret deal with the Military, before Jan 6th he stated Trump wanted to trigger the Insurrection act, The Oath Keepers, Leader voted for Corsi when he was the Candidate for the Constitution party for president.
I wonder where the message came from that Trump wanted an Insurrection, and they would have Military backing?
 
https://twitter.com/ZTPetrizzo/status/1428808460078968834?s=20

Zachary Petrizzo
@ZTPetrizzo
This morning, GOP operative Roger Stone announced that he will be filing a $25 million defamation suit against ABC News over their reporting about his role in January 6th riot.
8:57 PM · Aug 20, 2021·Twitter Web App
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This could be fun.

As an aside did Trump's pardon mean that he's not considered a felon?
 
smartcooky said:
If that is the case, then it makes Brooks, Giuliani and Trump even more culpable for what happened. They can no longer hide behind a claim that the insurrectionists had already plotted ahead of time and they that had nothing to do with those plans.
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Yes, they can, because as that quote stated, some of them did have plans to break in. They just didn't have any plans for step 2. It was basically an underpants gnome plan.

The lack of a defined goal that the insurrectionists wanted to achieve means it can be argued even more strongly that Giuliani's "trial by combat" comment, Brooks' act of imploring people to "Kick some ass and take some names" and Trump's direction to the crowd to march on the capitol, "fight like hell" and "take back our country" shows it was they who incited the insurrection.
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Incitement has a narrow legal definition, for a very good reason. You won't clear that bar.
 
Ziggurat said:
Yes, they can, because as that quote stated, some of them did have plans to break in. They just didn't have any plans for step 2. It was basically an underpants gnome plan.



Incitement has a narrow legal definition, for a very good reason. You won't clear that bar.
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How about Jerome Corsi literally saying that Trump,wanted a Riot confrontation so he could declare the Insurrection act?
On his now pulled YouTube video?
BASICLY HE CLAIMED,

1 GOP IN CONGRESS WOULD REJECT THE ELECTORS FROM DISPUTED STATES.

2. Pence would Send the VOTES BACK TO THE STATES,

3 BLM and Antifa Would Fight with Trump supporters.

4 Trump declairs Insurrection act,

5 Military Puts Trump back in white house per Secret deal from 2008.

6 Trump then President for life.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
How about Jerome Corsi literally saying that Trump,wanted a Riot confrontation so he could declare the Insurrection act?
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Is it your position that Jerome Corsi is a credible witness whose testimony in court will lead to Trump's conviction?

I'm not seeing it.
 
Ziggurat said:
Is it your position that Jerome Corsi is a credible witness whose testimony in court will lead to Trump's conviction?

I'm not seeing it.
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Corsi doesn't have to appear in court as a witness if there is documented proof as in videos, tweets, emails, etc. And he would be declared a hostile witness anyway.
 
Ziggurat said:
"FBI investigators did find that cells of protesters, including followers of the far-right Oath Keepers and Proud Boys groups, had aimed to break into the Capitol. But they found no evidence that the groups had serious plans about what to do if they made it inside, the sources said."​
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"Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!" "Kill Mike Pence!"
 
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