The Jan. 6 Investigation

[Ziggurat]

Two (all three?) of those links mention court documents in which the rioters admit to wanting to kill Pence and Pelosi, but none of your links contain links to those court documents, and a quick internet search came up empty for me, too. Do you have any links to those court documents?

I just did a run down, with court documents included, for that first link. It's... not impressive.

You can find court documents on everyone who has been charged at the DOJ website I linked before, but I'll put it here again for easy reference:
Capitol Breach Cases

I might poke around with the other two later.

 

[plague311]

Imagine investing a ton of time doing research just to be able to say, "You shouldn't lie. No one tried to attempt a murder. They only went in and spread **** on the walls, beat police officers, threatened to kill them, walked out a gallows while screaming 'Hang Pence!', and stole a bunch of ****. You guys are overreacting."

 

[Ziggurat]

Imagine investing a ton of time doing research just to be able to say, "You shouldn't lie. No one tried to attempt a murder. They only went in and spread **** on the walls, beat police officers, threatened to kill them, walked out a gallows while screaming 'Hang Pence!', and stole a bunch of ****. You guys are overreacting."

Imagine lying, and excusing the lie by saying, "Well, they still acted badly".

Do the facts matter, or do they not matter? And if they matter, why do you object to actually getting them right?

And lastly, the reason I spent time researching this isn't because I wanted to be able to say anything. I spent time researching this because I wanted to know. And apparently, despite multiple people making accusations of me being cocooned in right wing media, I'm the only one here who actually bothered to go to the primary source, unfiltered by media of any kind.

 

[plague311]

Imagine lying, and excusing the lie by saying, "Well, they still acted badly".

LoL where did I lie? Be specific.

Do the facts matter, or do they not matter? And if they matter, why do you object to actually getting them right?

You're asking all the wrong questions. The real question is: Does this fact matter?

The answer: Apparently to some.

In the grand scheme of things it might be important to a few of you but whether they are charged with it or not doesn't mean much for a few reasons. 1) What they're charged with now doesn't mean the charging is done. It means nothing, charges change all the time, usually immediately before trials or during a plea bargain. 2) The root of the issue is still up in the air because it happened in DC, and I don't see a statute for attempted murder in DC. Don't you think it would be kind of crucial to see if the people even COULD be charged with attempted murder? 3) It seems an odd hill to die on when taken within the whole context. You'd have to be blind or stupid not to see that there were people in that crowd intent on causing serious damage to those police. It's clear as day. If saying they didn't want to murder them is important to you, rock on sir. Rock on.

 

[dudalb]

Right Wing White people GOOD
Black Protestors...BAD.

That is what it comes do for some people here.

 

[Shalamar]

Right Wing White people GOOD
Black Protestors...BAD.

That is what it comes do for some people here.

Agreed.

And now we're seeing quibbling over 'Well, these police were so emotional over being beaten within an inch of their lives! And it's not attempted murder! See! No charges!'

How long before they start whining 'it's all the LEFTS fault anyways!'?

 

[kookbreaker]

Agreed.

And now we're seeing quibbling over 'Well, these police were so emotional over being beaten within an inch of their lives! And it's not attempted murder! See! No charges!'

How long before they start whining 'it's all the LEFTS fault anyways!'?

What do you think the blaming it all on Nancy Pelosi is?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Agreed.

And now we're seeing quibbling over 'Well, these police were so emotional over being beaten within an inch of their lives! And it's not attempted murder! See! No charges!'

How long before they start whining 'it's all the LEFTS fault anyways!'?

It's probably the left's fault because if BLM type protestors said they were showing up, the cops would have been fully kitted out and ready to crack skulls.

 

[Belz...]

Right Wing White people GOOD
Black Protestors...BAD.

That is what it comes do for some people here.

It's really that simple.

 

[Belz...]

Agreed.

And now we're seeing quibbling over 'Well, these police were so emotional over being beaten within an inch of their lives! And it's not attempted murder! See! No charges!'

How long before they start whining 'it's all the LEFTS fault anyways!'?

Yeah it's one thing to beat someone up and kill a police officer. It's another thing entirely to be all dramatic about it.

 

[Ziggurat]

LoL where did I lie? Be specific.

I didn't say YOU were the one who lied.

In the grand scheme of things it might be important to a few of you but whether they are charged with it or not doesn't mean much for a few reasons. 1) What they're charged with now doesn't mean the charging is done. It means nothing, charges change all the time, usually immediately before trials or during a plea bargain.

True. But charges usually START high, and then get whittled down if you're going to plea. Nobody pleads up. Adding charges as evidence accumulates doesn't generally take this long, especially when there's so much video evidence of everything that went down. It's not like the events here are all that complex. We're more than six months in. Charges seem fairly locked in now, barring any plea bargaining to lesser charges. The absence of any attempted murder charges is pretty damned suggestive that there was no attempted murder.

2) The root of the issue is still up in the air because it happened in DC, and I don't see a statute for attempted murder in DC.

You don't need a DC statute. The federal statute will suffice:
18 U.S. Code § 1113 - Attempt to commit murder or manslaughter

3) It seems an odd hill to die on when taken within the whole context.

Doesn't that apply to anyone still insisting that "attempted murder" is an accurate characterization? If everything else is so damning, why can't people let go of this? An odd hill to die on indeed.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

We're more than 6 months into this. The feds don't need to get the ball rolling at this point. We're well past that, and still not a single attempted murder charge.

I meant with individuals, not with the entire affair. I'm guessing there might still be evidence not on social media and not already collected.

Yeah, I understand the doctrine of felony murder. It's still quite distinct from attempted murder or murder (most notably on the matter of intent). But as your source points out, only certain felony crimes can trigger felony murder, not just any felony will suffice. And again, nobody is being charged with felony murder.

We have not seen final charges against all of them.
As usual you dodge the actual issues and continue on with your own. I highlighted them for you.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Why isn't [Bancroft] being charged with attempted murder, or something more serious?

Has she been to court yet? And I would think a verbal threat to kill a Congress-person is quite different from an attempt to kill.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Obviously the cops deserved it. They are traitors for opposing the Great Leader

 

[plague311]

True. But charges usually START high, and then get whittled down if you're going to plea. Nobody pleads up. Adding charges as evidence accumulates doesn't generally take this long, especially when there's so much video evidence of everything that went down. It's not like the events here are all that complex. We're more than six months in. Charges seem fairly locked in now, barring any plea bargaining to lesser charges. The absence of any attempted murder charges is pretty damned suggestive that there was no attempted murder.

There is no way that 6 months is a long time when the overall situation involves over 500 defendants. I can't even imagine that being the case. Popehat has repeatedly said that we're going to see this going on for years, and the depths of the multiple cases haven't even seen light yet.

I've seen charges added a bunch of times during an investigation. The issue isn't the amount or clarity of the evidence, it's having the time to analyze it. This is completely out of the norm with regards to sheer amount of people involved. We have murder investigations where there's 1 defendant that take years to get everything sorted out. Sorry, but I think you're wrong here.

You don't need a DC statute. The federal statute will suffice:
18 U.S. Code § 1113 - Attempt to commit murder or manslaughter

Yes, I saw that but (and I'll apologize for not being clear) that doesn't explain what is required in order to make it an attempted murder. Usually, like in the Kyle Rittenhouse case, there is a large breakdown of what actions are required. Just reading that I'd say that trying to gauge someone's eye out, trying to take their gun, and beating them would absolutely qualify as attempted murder, but I also know that laws are applied differently depending on the circumstances.

Doesn't that apply to anyone still insisting that "attempted murder" is an accurate characterization? If everything else is so damning, why can't people let go of this? An odd hill to die on indeed.

Yes, all around it's an odd hill to die on because it doesn't change much. There would be probably <10 people that would catch the attempted murder charge. About the only thing I'll agree with is that it's tough to show intent, especially in this case. Crimes of passion, or heat of the moment, are really difficult but it's completely possible.

 

[Ziggurat]

Has she been to court yet?

Yes. The DOJ page I linked lists the status of all cases. From hers:

Arrested 1/29/21. Initial appearance 2/8/21.

Charged via criminal information 4/1/21. Arraigned 4/29/21 where she pleaded not guilty to all counts.

Defendant remains on peronal recognizane. Status conference set for 9/28/21 at 3:00 pm.​

 

[Shalamar]

What do you think the blaming it all on Nancy Pelosi is?

Oh. I know. I was referring to the conservatives here.

As for the investigation, there will be only one, Conservatives will torpedo it as best they can.

How many Benghazi investigations were there?

Conservatives are dishonest, and hypocritical.

 

[acbytesla]

Yes, all around it's an odd hill to die on because it doesn't change much. There would be probably <10 people that would catch the attempted murder charge. About the only thing I'll agree with is that it's tough to show intent, especially in this case. Crimes of passion, or heat of the moment, are really difficult but it's completely possible.

Mens rea is required to prove Attempted Murder. The government must show intent to kill or inflict grievous bodily harm.

There is at least a dozen rioters that could face such a charge. Just that no one has been charged with this crime so far doesn't mean the charge won't be added.

 

[smartcooky]

We're more than 6 months into this. The feds don't need to get the ball rolling at this point. We're well past that, and still not a single attempted murder charge.

- They had an inbox with over 400,000 tips in it and it is still building.

- They have arrested and charged almost 600 people out of the 30,000+ people who were at the riot, about 100 of whom have only been arrested in the last 5 weeks

- They had to review tens of thousand of hours of video, and are still doing it. We have only seen a small part of the total. The FBI are keeping some of that under wraps (no discovery is required until charges are laid)

All this takes time... time and resources, and frankly, with the scale of this investigation (when was the last time almost 600 people have been arrested and charged for participating in a single riot?) I am staggered that they have manage to get so far along on this.

But you are expecting instant results.... ain't gonna happen!

 

[jimbob]

How do you prove that one man in a crowd of those committing assault was attempting murder? The crowd was certainly attempting to kill, the cumulative effects of the assault were certainly likely to result in a murder, but how do you prove that anyone in that crowd was attempting to commit murder?

Hey, there's felony murder, which even though it didn't involve the police officers being attacked, I would be happy with their attackers being charged with.