Today's Mass Shooting

[Andy_Ross]

I like the idea mentioned in an above post that criminals need to smuggle guns across the boarder in to the USA.
Why would they need to do that in a country with more guns than people, where a gun can be privately purchased without any checks and where they are left unsecured in houses and cars and easy to steal?

 

[mgidm86]

The more the merrier! Supply and demand! Maybe the ones from across the border are even cheaper than the ones we already have.

 

[Bogative]

Let's get the weekend started, in no particular order.

San Rafael, California

2 killed, 4 wounded outside of Detroit-based rapper Icewear Vezzo's concert.


Spartanburg, South Carolina

2 killed, 2 wounded in a drive-by shooting.

Travoiris Antoine Gentry, 28, of Anderson, and Jaquante Donell Burris, 24, of Spartanburg, were both pronounced dead after suffering gunshot wounds

Columbus, Ohio

4 wounded outside da club in the Short North.

This is at least the third shooting to take place in the Short North in the past week.

Amarillo, Texas

6 wounded after a dispute turned into gunplay at an after-hours club.

This gun violence is unacceptable in our community. It is not OK to stay silent on this issue because innocent lives are at stake.

More FTP culture.


Macon, Georgia

2 dead, 2 wounded after a fight in da club turned into gunplay.

22-year-old Kabryan Zyke Johnson died in the emergency room from multiple gunshot wounds and 20-year-old Donovan Cason died at the scene.

The third victim, 21-year-old Fuquan Conner, is still hospitalized and is in critical but stable condition.

The mayor is planning on purchasing a Shot Spotter to help curb the violence. I'm guessing the neighborhood it will be placed in is not populated by members of the Proud Boys.

 

[Andy_Ross]

The more the merrier! Supply and demand! Maybe the ones from across the border are even cheaper than the ones we already have.

Which ones would they be?
It tends to be guns going from the USA to Mexico that is the problem.

 

[Meadmaker]

The mayor is planning on purchasing a Shot Spotter to help curb the violence. I'm guessing the neighborhood it will be placed in is not populated by members of the Proud Boys.

About seven years ago I took an online course on drones. Drones were pretty new at the time, as inexpensive aircraft. The course didn't even call them "drones". It called them quadcopters. In the introductory assignment we had to identify some application for drones.

My proposal was a combination of Shot Spotter with drones. Leave drones prepositioned on rooftops, communicating with a Shot Spotter system. When Shot Spotter detects a gunshot, the drones automatically launch and proceed, with cameras active, to the shooting location, and possibly nearby intersections to catch images of fleeing suspects or their cars.

There are probably some safety concerns with automatically launched drones, and of course it wouldn't be easy to coordinate the technical activity, but I think it could prabably be worked out. If automatic operation and launch is too much to ask for, just a signal to a remote monitoring team that would pilot them by remote control. That's certaily within the ability of modern technology.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

As the availability of guns contracts, criminal enterprises would become increasingly cautious about who's hands they are put in and the "disciplinary" procedures for "improper" use of them.

A few years back. I had a gun pointed at me from a car that I had resisted attempting to force its way into my lane. This was in a neighborhood known for narcotics trafficking. The occupants gave the appearance of gang types (I made this assessment based on dress and demeanor). I remember being almost as incensed at the poor decision making of this "muscle" as I was at the clear threat I had just been subjected to.

 

[Bogative]

But Chicago

5 men wounded as they were standing around in a backyard and another man approached and opened fire. This occurred less than 24 hours after a "Peace March" was held in the same neighborhood.


Seattle, Washington

2 dead, 3 wounded outside da Trinity nightclub.

Then at 2:33 a.m., officers responded to multiple shootings in Pioneer Square, just as more than 300 people were leaving a nightclub

 

[Bogative]

As the availability of guns contracts,

the value of the weapons will increase, enticing criminal enterprises even more into trafficking them just like drug and human trafficking.

criminal enterprises would become increasingly cautious about who's hands they are put in and the "disciplinary" procedures for "improper" use of them.

We could just increase the disciplinary procedures now instead of making it more difficult for law-abiding citizens to obtain guns. But that may be seen as systemic racism.

 

[Cain]

the value of the weapons will increase, enticing criminal enterprises even more into trafficking them just like drug and human trafficking.

This is pretty daft. If the supply contracts, then you already have fewer guns available. An increase in price means, all other things being equal, fewer guns will be purchased. Regulations really do work.

Guns are not like drugs. People become addicted to drugs. A driver for guns is that one's enemies possess guns, which sets off an arms race: People need guns because of a threat posed by guns.

As far as organized crime goes, I'd guess drugs are substantially more lucrative in well-ordered societies. Guns are necessary to facilitate criminal activity. Also, guns are not as easily smuggled as drugs: As mumblethrax observed, "I've never seen anyone swallow a condom full of guns." They have drugs in Australia and Japan, but not as many guns. In Australia, criminals have reportedly resorted to a lending program for firearms. Drugs are not as bulky, and worth more by weight. If guns become worth more than uncut heroin or cocaine, you're not going to have as many buyers -- which is related to another point: the vast majority of customers are not purchasing drugs by the kilo. Drugs are divisible in ways that firearms are not, which, all other things being equal, makes them easier to move.

 

[jimbob]

This is pretty daft. If the supply contracts, then you already have fewer guns available. An increase in price means, all other things being equal, fewer guns will be purchased. Regulations really do work.

Guns are not like drugs. People become addicted to drugs. A driver for guns is that one's enemies possess guns, which sets off an arms race: People need guns because of a threat posed by guns.

As far as organized crime goes, I'd guess drugs are substantially more lucrative in well-ordered societies. Guns are necessary to facilitate criminal activity. Also, guns are not as easily smuggled as drugs: As mumblethrax observed, "I've never seen anyone swallow a condom full of guns." They have drugs in Australia and Japan, but not as many guns. In Australia, criminals have reportedly resorted to a lending program for firearms. Drugs are not as bulky, and worth more by weight. If guns become worth more than uncut heroin or cocaine, you're not going to have as many buyers -- which is related to another point: the vast majority of customers are not purchasing drugs by the kilo. Drugs are divisible in ways that firearms are not, which, all other things being equal, makes them easier to move.

It's not just firearms. They need ammunition. Having better control of either can disrupt criminal enterprises. And as you say, it changes the calculus for when criminals feel the risk of having an illegal gun outweighs the benefit

 

[ponderingturtle]

Because most (all?) gun control proposals are exclusively aimed at legal gun owners. Even the most strident anti-Constitutionalists admit that criminal use of guns are the problem and yet their solution is "Hey, let's take guns away from legal, law-abiding gun owners!" It won't solve the illegal gun problem, but it will let them exert more control over the citizenry.

It's the equivalent of stopping drunk drivers by banning cars, except the ownership of cars isn't a Constitutional right.

Yes we need to go after those who manufacture these illegal guns, shut them all down. Your gun gets used in a crime, your business is shut down.

 

[ponderingturtle]

As to the highlighted, why are mass shootings a derail in a thread titled "Today's Mass Shooting"?

As to your list, let me start by saying that almost every murder is a tragedy and very few people deserve to die whether by gun or any other method. On the other hand, you've listed 365 deaths of people killed in mass shootings over a period of 14 years 2007-20021. That's roughly one half the number that are killed by beatings in one year on average and roughly one quarter the number of people that are killed by stabbing in one year on average. Maybe we should ban knives and cut everyone's hands off?

In a country of over 350 million people, 365 deaths over 14 years is statistical noise.

Again, to be absolutely clear, I'm not claiming that nothing should be done about gun crime. I'm just saying taking away people's Constitutional rights in order to not solve the problem is not a good way to go.

And your source is very dishonest. They get their 83 percent number by simply ignoring the vast majority of mass shootings. Perfect illustration of "It doesn't count if it's not a white guy".

And of course suicides don't count either because they are proven worthless people by their desire to kill themselves and so we can throw out all those deaths too. Fun!

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The problem that gun control never addresses is that the majority of street crime occurs using the very same weapons that are popular with broad swaths of the law-abiding public. Not scary rifles with drum mags and sawn down barrels, but your ordinary pistol or revolver that mom and dad might also keep in a locked box in the closet "just in case".

Gun control advocates will occasionally have success passing laws banning scary or "bad" firearms, features, and accessories, but only because these are items that even some gun owners are open to prohibiting. Outright firearm prohibition is not just unconstitutional, it is politically unpopular.


Anything short of a total ban on the personal possession of nearly all firearms, especially pistols, is just nibbling around the crusts of the turd sandwich.

There's really nothing particularly advanced about the common pistol. Semi autos are very common these days, but revolvers are nearly as effective as criminal tools and have existed more or less in their mature form since the turn of the 20th century. I can't see any way to directly target guns used by criminals while leaving gun rights intact for ordinary people. It's a fools errand. Short of actually popularizing the idea of prohibiting all forms of gun ownership, such as some of our peers have done, gun control is little more than fighting for a few fatalities in the margins.

 

[crescent]

The problem that gun control never addresses is that the majority of street crime occurs using the very same weapons that are popular with broad swaths of the law-abiding public. Not scary rifles with drum mags and sawn down barrels, but your ordinary pistol or revolver that mom and dad might also keep in a locked box in the closet "just in case".

I agree, except that some of the proposed gun control efforts do address all firearms, such as purchase limits and universal background checks.

Gun control advocates will occasionally have success passing laws banning scary or "bad" firearms, features, and accessories, but only because these are items that even some gun owners are open to prohibiting. Outright firearm prohibition is not just unconstitutional, it is politically unpopular.


Anything short of a total ban on the personal possession of nearly all firearms, especially pistols, is just nibbling around the crusts of the turd sandwich.

There's really nothing particularly advanced about the common pistol. Semi autos are very common these days, but revolvers are nearly as effective as criminal tools and have existed more or less in their mature form since the turn of the 20th century. I can't see any way to directly target guns used by criminals while leaving gun rights intact for ordinary people. It's a fools errand. Short of actually popularizing the idea of prohibiting all forms of gun ownership, such as some of our peers have done, gun control is little more than fighting for a few fatalities in the margins.

I think a few of the legislative proposals put forward by the gun control groups could have impact. Limitations on how many guns a person could buy at once or during a week/month could cut down on straw purchases. Universal background checks could have an impact in those states that still don't require them for peer-to-peer sales (cutting down on purchases by people who can't legally own guns and also cutting down on straw purchases by people who just don't want to enter their name into the system). Security requirements for retailers to cut down on theft. There could also be limits on the sales/marketing of kits to buy 80% or 90% finished firearms and complete them by milling off a bit of steel and drilling a few holds - so called "Ghost guns" which could be long guns or handguns and currently can mostly be bought without background checks.

But overall I agree with your post. A part of me misses the days when the biggest gun control group in America was "Handgun Control Inc." (since folded into Brady with a corresponding change in focus).

 

[TurkeysGhost]

About seven years ago I took an online course on drones. Drones were pretty new at the time, as inexpensive aircraft. The course didn't even call them "drones". It called them quadcopters. In the introductory assignment we had to identify some application for drones.

My proposal was a combination of Shot Spotter with drones. Leave drones prepositioned on rooftops, communicating with a Shot Spotter system. When Shot Spotter detects a gunshot, the drones automatically launch and proceed, with cameras active, to the shooting location, and possibly nearby intersections to catch images of fleeing suspects or their cars.

There are probably some safety concerns with automatically launched drones, and of course it wouldn't be easy to coordinate the technical activity, but I think it could prabably be worked out. If automatic operation and launch is too much to ask for, just a signal to a remote monitoring team that would pilot them by remote control. That's certaily within the ability of modern technology.

ShotSpotter is notoriously unreliable and are basically little more than probable cause generating black boxes that are rife with interference to generate the results police want.

Police Are Telling ShotSpotter to Alter Evidence From Gunshot-Detecting AI
Prosecutors in Chicago are being forced to withdraw evidence generated by the technology, which led to the police killing of 13-year-old Adam Toledo earlier this year.

https://www.vice.com/amp/en/article/qj8xbq/police-are-telling-shotspotter-to-alter-evidence-from-gunshot-detecting-ai

 

[Bogative]

Detroit, Michigan

7 wounded during a drive-by shooting at a candlelight vigil.

Police said seven people were shot when a suspect opened fire into a crowd of at least 100 at a candlelight vigil on Detroit’s west side.


The crowd had gathered on Sunday night to hold a candlelight vigil for a man who was killed in a hit-and-run while riding an all-terrain vehicle.

 

[Bogative]

Fort Worth, Texas

1 dead, 3 wounded.

The shooter was stoned to death after the shooting.

A man attending the party became upset and left, but he returned with another person, police said. They went to the backyard and argued with several people.

The man shot at least one person in the backyard, and fled as other party-goers chased the shooter, police said.

The shooter turned and fired at the group, but other people picked up concrete landscaping bricks and hurled them at the shooter, police said.

At some point, the shooter was caught by the group, and either fell or was taken down by the group. The shooter continued shooting, striking at least at least three others, authorities said.

The gunman was struck multiple times with at least one landscaping brick and was pronounced dead at the scene, police said.

 

[plague311]

I just read the last page of this thread, and all I want to know is:

What the **** is an anti-constitutionalist?

 

[ponderingturtle]

I just read the last page of this thread, and all I want to know is:

What the **** is an anti-constitutionalist?

Someone who thinks blacks are worth more than 60% of a real person?

 

[Bogative]

Someone who thinks blacks are worth more than 60% of a real person?

Nevermind