Not vaccinated=selfish & irresponsible?

[cullennz]

The thing is nothing in my experience is black or white.

Everything has grey.

I just try to look at both sides of the thing and while I agree that having the vaccine is just the right thing to do, I can see why some people who haven't done the research would be hesitant. And get why.

Which frankly is the fault of authorities and their educating people about it.

Not sure about other coutries but ours has been crap.

 

[angrysoba]

The thing is nothing in my experience is black or white. Everything has grey.
I just try to look at both sides of the thing and while I agree that having the vaccine is just the right thing to do, I can see why some people who haven't done the research would be hesitant. And get why.

Which frankly is the fault of authorities and their educating people about it.

Not sure about other coutries but ours has been crap.

The problem for health authorities is that they are up against well-organized propagandists for "natural medicine", "organic" BS, anti-chemicals rhetoric, alternative medicine enthusiasts, podcasters and internet gurus, hipsters and New Age peddlars of misinformation and disinformation.

They manage to exploit people's intuitive fears of needles and hand them a self-justifying narrative. Also, it is easier to focus on a particular individual's side effects and ignore the millions of people who could be saved through vaccination, because individuals are easy to picture, but millions are just dry statistics. Yes, of course education can help, but often it is just further exploited by these same anti-vaxxers and twisted by them to make it look like the health authorities are lying. People are not as easily persuaded by science as they are by emotional rhetoric.

If public health authorities try to do any of the same tactics of the alternative health ********, then they get attacked for doing so.

Here's an example.

 

[8enotto]

The thing is nothing in my experience is black or white.

Everything has grey.

I just try to look at both sides of the thing and while I agree that having the vaccine is just the right thing to do, I can see why some people who haven't done the research would be hesitant. And get why.

Which frankly is the fault of authorities and their educating people about it.

Not sure about other coutries but ours has been crap.

The average person being semi educated on most issues affecting his life is very real.

As an example I have been told by a bunch of nice folks that once they got the vaccine it was ok to relax or stop with most precautions.

People are so desperate to really return to normal life as before all this crap it's silly.

Who can blame them, none of this is fun. Even those that nearly religiously followed all precautions before have all but stopped wearing masks. The paranoia is ending.. Only when posted it is required to enter a business for most now.

The vaccine offered hope, the people have believed and complied.
But are the risks really reduced enough to relax yet? We shall see

 

[Distracted1]

People who are vaccinated aren't a breeding ground for a new variation of Covid.

They may be potential breeding grounds for other things, but that's true whether they are vaccinated against Covid or not, so I don't see how it could enter in to your cost/benefit analysis of vaccination against Covid.

People who aren't vaccinated are also potential vectors for infection of other unvaccinated people. That's also not a good thing.

The other unvaccinated are weighing their own risks (or in the case of minors- their guardians are weighing the risks for them- as is the case in all situations regarding them) and determining that they are acceptable.
If my Vaccination is protecting me- I am willing to allow them that freedom.

If it is not- then what is the point of either of us getting it?

 

[Belz...]

The thing is nothing in my experience is black or white.

Everything has grey.

2+2=4, find the gray please.

 

[abaddon]

How about daily doses of Vit C, Vit D, Zinc, Grape Seed Extract and throw in a dose of Quercetin. These are the protection.

And you want, just like CE, a return of soviet hegemony, right?

 

[casebro]

Yet you have been minimizing this since day one.

And I was right too. Overall death rate to date in America is a mere 2:1,000. NOT the 80% iun the first news out of China hospitals, only 1/50th of the 10% of the Flu of1917.

.....
And most virologists that I listen to say it is wildly irresponsible to assume that people getting sick with Covid-19 is a useful way of reaching herd immunity as it is unreliable and obviously runs a much higher risk of serious illness or death.

Irresponsible and risky as a plan, sure, but REAL. Or are you n saying it is NOT a real factor?

 

[casebro]

A new article on Science-Based Medicine asks about the dangers of Covid-19 to children compared with the flu, and a really important point that is skipped over by Covid minimizers is here:



Link

Non-sequitor. I mentioned 2018.

 

[angrysoba]

Non-sequitor. I mentioned 2018.

It's not a non-sequitur. 2018 is a bad comparison.

 

[Resume]

If my Vaccination is protecting me- I am willing to allow them that freedom.

What freedom do you allow those with compromised immune systems who can neither take the shot, nor the virus? The freedom to **** right off? Freedom my left testicle.

 

[cullennz]

2+2=4, find the gray please.

Depends on what type of measurement scale you are referring to.

 

[dudalb]

Post the arguments then.

Young, fit people in Sydney are getting and passing on covid at a high rate right now.

When you are young you think you are invincible and you will live forever. Sad but true for a lot of people.

 

[mgidm86]

And I was right too. Overall death rate to date in America is a mere 2:1,000. NOT the 80% iun the first news out of China hospitals, only 1/50th of the 10% of the Flu of1917.

Irresponsible and risky as a plan, sure, but REAL. Or are you n saying it is NOT a real factor?

Death rate is not the only issue.

But let's take those odds. If you were offered $10,000 to walk into a room with 500 people where it was known that one of you would be shot in the head, would you feel okay with those odds?

Yes or no?

 

[Roboramma]

The other unvaccinated are weighing their own risks (or in the case of minors- their guardians are weighing the risks for them- as is the case in all situations regarding them) and determining that they are acceptable.
If my Vaccination is protecting me- I am willing to allow them that freedom.

If it is not- then what is the point of either of us getting it?

Your vaccination protects you, but imperfectly.

There are people who would like to be vaccinated, but can't be. They aren't protected, and the unvaccinated can transmit the virus to them.

The unvaccinated who get and transmit the virus are a pool in which the virus can mutate such that it can become a danger to the vaccinated.

All of these are ways in which one person's being vaccinated (or not) affects others.

 

[Roboramma]

And I was right too.

Were you? Can you quote a specific prediction you made?

 

[cullennz]

Death rate is not the only issue.

But let's take those odds. If you were offered $10,000 to walk into a room with 500 people where it was known that one of you would be shot in the head, would you feel okay with those odds?

Yes or no?

If you made it $10,000,000 I would probably go with it. And a cadbury creme egg....And a KFC zinger burger meal with potato and gravy with some wicked wings. Has to winglets though, not the wee mini drumsticks.

 

[CORed]

Science seems to be clear that as long as there are sizeable numbers of people who are not vaccinated, Covid-19 will continue to mutate into more transmittable and more deadly variants.

That being the case, and more than 600,000 people dead in the USA, is it a selfish and irresponsible act to NOT be vaccinated if you have no health issue preventing vaccination?

I think it is. This is a team effort and you are LITERALLY part of the problem if you are not part of the solution. You're either on Team Vaccine or Team Covid-19.

Is not getting vaccinated irresponsible? Oh hell yes. Is it selfish? I have a hard time characterizing it as "selfish" when not getting vaccinated is clearly contrary to the self-interest of nearly all people who don't get vaccinated. Hell, my reasons for getting the vaccine are primarily selfish. I got it because I do not want to get the damn virus. Benefits to other people are all well and good, but are decidedly secondary to preventing me from getting sick and possibly dying.

 

[rdwight]

Weird history change going on. When Trump was saying a vaccine would be ready before elections, there was partisan worry of it being rushed through. Now the idea of the vaccines being rushed is regarded in the opposite direction. That does not reflect its safety or efficacy, given the large use and continued study since then, just something people should be aware of. Stuff like this encourages vaccine hesitancy, and should be denounced and avoided in the future.

Most of the complaints are silly here besides that. What about new variants!!! Ya, we should be worried here vs the rest of the world where such a large percentage are unvaccinated. Can anyone here give me a scientific and data related reason a strain would come from our smaller population of unvaccinated people vs the larger worldly population? Beyond that, what specifically stops variants from forming in the vaccinated portion of the population? Is there a paper I could read in regards to why, what % is avoided doing so exactly etc?

All of this is besides the question. Getting vaccinated or not is always going to be a selfish decision. Being irresponsible will depend on the actions of people whether vaccinated or not. If Joe Shmoe doesn't get vaccinated but lives a hermit like existence, is he more irresponsible than Jim Slim who is vaccinated but engages in much riskier activity, interacts with highly vulnerable people afterwards, ignores a runny nose because it's probably allergies since he had the vaccine etc etc.

 

[angrysoba]

Weird history change going on. When Trump was saying a vaccine would be ready before elections, there was partisan worry of it being rushed through. Now the idea of the vaccines being rushed is regarded in the opposite direction. That does not reflect its safety or efficacy, given the large use and continued study since then, just something people should be aware of. Stuff like this encourages vaccine hesitancy, and should be denounced and avoided in the future.

I don't know who you are talking about, but it doesn't apply to me. If you can find particular people or organizations being hypocritical, then fine, but that is on them. If you cannot, then maybe don't paint in such broad brush strokes.

 

[bruto]

The other unvaccinated are weighing their own risks (or in the case of minors- their guardians are weighing the risks for them- as is the case in all situations regarding them) and determining that they are acceptable.
If my Vaccination is protecting me- I am willing to allow them that freedom.

If it is not- then what is the point of either of us getting it?

I may have missed something in the responses here but one of the biggest arguments I've seen for vaccination is that people who get the virus also then have a greater chance of having it mutate into new forms which the vaccines available cannot fight as well. This issue diminishes greatly if as many people as possible get the vaccine. So although in a better world, it's true that if your vaccine protects you, you should care little about what risks others take. But in the real world those unvaccinated people could spread a variant that comes back at you.