Cont: Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol - part 2

[catsmate]

Is there really no historically similar references besides Nazi related ones to compare things to when it comes to anything Trump related?

Franco is a bit obscure for the average USAian.

I think it's because those of us in the US anyway know a lot more about Hitler than other dictators in history.

Curious if our friends here from the EU who know more about Mussolini or even Franco would picture Dump as a different dictator wannabe?

Mussolini maybe, he and Tantrump share the same disconnection from reality and comical attempts hyper-masculinity. Franco was far more intelligent and canny than Hitler, Mussolini or Trump.

 

[Belz...]

Is there really no historically similar references besides Nazi related ones to compare things to when it comes to anything Trump related?

Nazi Germany is just the go-to example for right-wing fascism. Maybe Trump and his cultists should stop driving in that direction if they don't like the comparison.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Interesting development in the case of the CHUD-cop J6 rioter that is having his bail revoked when caught with a pipe bomb.

Police also found 37 firearms in his house approximately valued at $50,000. Many of these firearms have been recently acquired while out on bail even he is not permitted to possess firearms during this time.

It's a strange list of firearms. Some modern stuff that you might expect for some CHUD planning an act of violence, but lots of expensive collector items. Several items of WW2 vintage, including multiple M1 Garands.

https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1414574618204123138

I think this guy is coming unspooled. He's bought around $50,000 worth of guns since January, only to have them all seized by the police.

ETA: I count 12 M1 Garand rifles. Not exactly what you'd be buying up if you're trying to arm a militia of CHUDs. My guess is that the guy is losing his grip on reality.

 

[erlando]

ETA: I count 12 M1 Garand rifles. Not exactly what you'd be buying up if you're trying to arm a militia of CHUDs. My guess is that the guy is losing his grip on reality.

Totally off-topic but when I did a stint in the army some 30 years ago my company was equipped with M1 Garands that the US Army gifted the Danish military after WW2. Most of the rest of the army got to play around with M75s. We got the thumb-crushers.

That said the Garand was a damn good rifle. I could shoot the balls off a fly 400 metres out with it. And if you ran out of ammo (8 shot capacity then a *pling* as the frame was ejected) you could use it as a bat...

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Totally off-topic but when I did a stint in the army some 30 years ago my company was equipped with M1 Garands that the US Army gifted the Danish military after WW2. Most of the rest of the army got to play around with M75s. We got the thumb-crushers.

That said the Garand was a damn good rifle. I could shoot the balls off a fly 400 metres out with it. And if you ran out of ammo (8 shot capacity then a *pling* as the frame was ejected) you could use it as a bat...

They are fun rifles to shoot, and plenty dangerous. I really enjoy shooting mine, though only sparingly as .30-06 is an expensive cartridge compared to more modern offerings. It's not what someone would buy today to commit acts of violence or terrorism unless they were trying to score points for style.

They are quite collectible in the US, as you might expect of all US military surplus firearms, and rarer versions like the International Harvester listed can be quite pricey. It just strikes me as odd that someone facing serious criminal charges and a prohibition on firearm ownership would spend a small fortune on vintage collector pieces. It seems like a pretty clear indication of an unsound mind.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Nazi Germany is just the go-to example for right-wing fascism. Maybe Trump and his cultists should stop driving in that direction if they don't like the comparison.

Now to be fair the comparison is flawed.

Hitler actually won his election without Russian help. And actually served in the German Army.

 

[catsmate]

Now to be fair the comparison is flawed.

Hitler actually won his election without Russian help. And actually served in the German Army.

In March '33 the NSDAP got 44% of the vote and 288 (of 647) Reichstag seats. And that was with about fifty thousand of their thugs monitoring the polling places. lots of violence and censorship.
It was only after banning all other political parties that the Nazis got a majority,

 

[dudalb]

Is there really no historically similar references besides Nazi related ones to compare things to when it comes to anything Trump related?

Yes, but the Nazi References are the most easily and widely understood.

 

[dudalb]

Do they have a Blutfahne from January?

Don't steal my sthick,man!

 

[dudalb]

Interesting development in the case of the CHUD-cop J6 rioter that is having his bail revoked when caught with a pipe bomb.

Police also found 37 firearms in his house approximately valued at $50,000. Many of these firearms have been recently acquired while out on bail even he is not permitted to possess firearms during this time.

It's a strange list of firearms. Some modern stuff that you might expect for some CHUD planning an act of violence, but lots of expensive collector items. Several items of WW2 vintage, including multiple M1 Garands.

https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1414574618204123138

I think this guy is coming unspooled. He's bought around $50,000 worth of guns since January, only to have them all seized by the police.

ETA: I count 12 M1 Garand rifles. Not exactly what you'd be buying up if you're trying to arm a militia of CHUDs. My guess is that the guy is losing his grip on reality.

Saw that list. Would'nt mind a Finnish Mosin Nagant myself. Very good target rifle. Surprised to see one in that list, since a model in good condition is not cheap.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Saw that list. Would'nt mind a Finnish Mosin Nagant myself. Very good target rifle. Surprised to see one in that list, since a model in good condition is not cheap.

Finnish M39 Mosin Nagant to 1,100yds, open iron sights: Practical Accuracy

 

[Resume]

Franco is a bit obscure for the average USAian.

So obscure it was a running joke on SNL. A meme before memes.

 

[Segnosaur]

Interesting development in the case of the CHUD-cop J6 rioter that is having his bail revoked when caught with a pipe bomb.

Police also found 37 firearms in his house approximately valued at $50,000. Many of these firearms have been recently acquired while out on bail.
....
I think this guy is coming unspooled. He's bought around $50,000 worth of guns since January, only to have them all seized by the police.

ETA: I count 12 M1 Garand rifles. Not exactly what you'd be buying up if you're trying to arm a militia of CHUDs. My guess is that the guy is losing his grip on reality.

Just wondering, what were his firearms purchases like before the terrorist insurrection? Did he regularly buy firearms of various types? Or is this something new in his life?

Just playing devils advocate here. It is possible that his recent gun purchases were less a case of "I am becoming unspooled", and more a case of "I have always been a gun nut, and I just don't think a little thing like bail conditions should apply to me". (The fact that many of his guns are "classic" firearms not really practical for arming a bunch of Trump militia suggests that.)

 

[Segnosaur]

Franco is a bit obscure for the average USAian.

So obscure it was a running joke on SNL. A meme before memes.

Of course that was decades ago... If you made that joke today, many Americans wouldn't know who you were talking about. And even when they were making that joke, many people might have known the name Franco, but had no idea of his back story/rise to power, just that he was "some leader somewhere".

 

[Resume]

Of course that was decades ago... If you made that joke today, many Americans wouldn't know who you were talking about. And even when they were making that joke, many people might have known the name Franco, but had no idea of his back story/rise to power, just that he was "some leader somewhere".

My kids are in their 20s and they know who he was. Still dead, I might add.


ETA: All you had to do was not fall asleep during world history class and you'd know who he was. So like Manuel, you'd know how to reply when the Orally man asked where the generalissimo was. "¡En Madrid!

 

[arthwollipot]

That said the Garand was a damn good rifle. I could shoot the balls off a fly 400 metres out with it. And if you ran out of ammo (8 shot capacity then a *pling* as the frame was ejected) you could use it as a bat...

There was a command occasionally required in early 16th century pike and musket formations, when the enemy came too close for the formation to be able to reload. "Club your musket" meant to hold your musket by the barrel and be prepared to use it for close combat.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Totally off-topic but when I did a stint in the army some 30 years ago my company was equipped with M1 Garands that the US Army gifted the Danish military after WW2. Most of the rest of the army got to play around with M75s. We got the thumb-crushers.

That said the Garand was a damn good rifle. I could shoot the balls off a fly 400 metres out with it. And if you ran out of ammo (8 shot capacity then a *pling* as the frame was ejected) you could use it as a bat...

Then you loaded it again, why would you only have 8 shots?

 

[kookbreaker]

There was a command occasionally required in early 16th century pike and musket formations, when the enemy came too close for the formation to be able to reload. "Club your musket" meant to hold your musket by the barrel and be prepared to use it for close combat.

By the English Civil War the command was often "Turn your butts to the enemy".

 

[The Great Zaganza]

no Wessel for Trump without a catchy song...

...which I doubt they will manage to create.

 

[Aridas]

Nazi Germany is just the go-to example for right-wing fascism. Maybe Trump and his cultists should stop driving in that direction if they don't like the comparison.

I'm lazily quoting this for the sake of noting that this is the topic in question.

David Frum actually weighed in on the topic recently, by the look of it.

To take an excerpt...

We are so accustomed to using the word fascist as an epithet that it feels awkward to adjust it for political analysis. We understand that there were and are many varieties of socialism. We forget that there were varieties of fascism as well, and not just those defeated in World War II. Peronism, in Argentina, offers a lot of insights into post-presidential Trumpism.

Juan Perón, a bungling and vacillating leader, attracted followers with a jumble of often conflicting and contradictory ideas. He had the good luck to take power in a major food-producing nation at a time when the world was hungry—and imagined that the brief flash of easy prosperity that followed was his own doing. The only thing he knew for certain was the target of his hatred: anybody who got in his way, anybody who questioned him, anybody who thought for himself or herself. An expatriate Argentine who grew up under Perón’s rule remembered the graffiti on the walls, the Twitter of its day: Build the Fatherland. Kill a student. As V. S. Naipaul astutely observed, “Even when the money ran out, Peronism could offer hate as hope.”

After Perón lost power, Peronism became a myth of a lost golden age—a fantasy of restoration and redemption—and always a rejection of the frustrations of normal politics, of the tedium of legality. Who needed policies when the solution to every problem was a magic name? Politicians who hoped for the old leader’s blessing trudged to his place of exile, were photographed with him, and then sabotaged by him. The only plan he followed was somehow to force himself again upon his country, one way or another.

It was pathetic and terrifying, a national catastrophe that produced a long-running international musical.