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Useful Idiots of the Day

OK, here we go...

Having spent the past 1/2 hour Googling this subject (the Dick Clark Rockin' New Year's Party just isn't happening for me).

http://www.socialistviewpoint.org/dec_02/Pal_women_flags.jpg
Protesting the death of Ian Hook


http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/11/11/12ARAFAT_wideweb__430x258.jpg
Mourning Arafat's death 2004 (this one could be considered in the context of the event)

http://artactivism.members.gn.apc.org/photos/maggie.jpg
In San Francisco, at a pro-palestinian demonstration


http://www.gamla.org.il/images/2004/nov/woman1.jpg
A stylized headband - not exactly a keffiya

http://www.merip.org/palestine-israel_primer/graphics/palestinian-women-fighters.jpg
PLO female fighters (archive picture)
(source)


This one I found to be especially poignant:
http://www.bellagreetings.com/1/jerusalem.jpg
source -- Palestinian women mourn during a vigil outside the U.S. consulate in east-Jerusalem, September 12, 2001.


and this last one which shows a typical group of palestinians, in a school auditorium, and I am here to tell you, this photo really depicts how I normally visualize the palestinians, as just average people, trying to do their best for their families & for themselves, and I can imagine myself and my wife in that crowd, as if it was a PTA meeting in our son's school. I have no hate for these people. I have every amount of empathy and respect for them.
This image is my parting-shot for this thread for 2005. Peace.
http://www.birzeit.edu/images/html-e/7-3wemen2.jpg

Image source:
2005 Women's Rights Symposium, Bir Zeit University

--- (edited to drop image from appearing here & stealing Bir Zeit website bandwidth, I'll just provide link instead) ---
 
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Kopji said:
The continued hostage taking in Gaza seems to have a different purpose than that in Iraq. Palestinians usually let hostages go.

The goal of the Gaza extremists is to embarrass the 'moderates' (I use the term 'moderate' very loosely for the Abbas). If they think that taking hostages is going to helpfully influence Israel's tactics, they are as dumb as rocks. So it makes much more sense that this serves factional infighting.

The kidnappings were probably more an indication that Palestinians kidnap by outward appearance rather than ideology, and were embarrassed by accidentally kidnapping an ally to their cause.

They do not think clearly enough to see that kidnappings destroy their own economy and future, biting various hands trying to feed them.

I can understand that there are people like Burton there to help, but it must be more than a little frustrating to witness first hand what doofuses they are.
Click to expand...

I agree, especially with your last statement. I thought Colin Powell was thinking outside the box when he advocated forming a Palestinian State, and I'd certainly support both Palestinians and Israelis who are tired of the violence and willing to work out the problems peacefully. I also believe the Palestinians deserve their own country, along with which would come the understanding that should they attack any of their neighbors, we would swiftly move to attack . . . Norway! Or maybe Moldavia unless they rejoin the coalition of the willing and send their five truckdrivers back. ;)

The "doofus" factor may also point to something I've always asserted; the notion that many Palestinian terrorists are extremists idiots carrying out independant and irrational acts of aggression. I know this is a poor analogy, but Israel's part in this would be like the U.S. bombing Jerry Falwell's hometown everytime an abortion clinic was bombed or an abortion doctor was shot.

It's unfortunate that at the core of all this death, destruction, violence, hate and loathing is something laughingly called, "the Holy Land." As a matter of fact, the Doofus Factor is so high in this subject, that a lot of people couldn't see the humor in comediene, Sarah Silverman's quote; "I love how the Palestinians and Jews hate each other. It's cute. Honestly, what's the difference? They're brown. They have an odor. It's like sweet potatos hating yams."
 
webfusion said:
. . . and this last one which shows a typical group of palestinians, in a school auditorium, and I am here to tell you, this photo really depicts how I normally visualize the palestinians, as just average people, trying to do their best for their families & for themselves, and I can imagine myself and my wife in that crowd, as if it was a PTA meeting in our son's school. I have no hate for these people. I have every amount of empathy and respect for them.
This image is my parting-shot for this thread for 2005. Peace.
7-3wemen2.jpg

2005 Women's Rights Symposium, Bir Zeit University
Click to expand...

And Peace to you too, Webfusion! Thanks for the picture, they look like a bunch of Mexicans to me! :) I'll bet my Tio Albino is in the other room with the tamales and the posole! Peace everyone! :)

And no, I don't drink . . . ;)
 
manny said:
After Webfusion's heartfelt farewell to 2005 it seems uncharitable to laugh at that, but laugh I did!
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HEY! What are you doing here? I thought for sure you'd be in Times Square. Happy New Year, manny and I hope you caught my apology for leaving your name out of my original post. :)

I think clarsct is right! You can just make out the letters CAT . . .
 
not advertising -- just another political statement

Zep makes a comment: "Seems no-one is immune to advertising merch these days!" --- Did you really miss the connection? CAT on the Hat is a reference to IDF D9's.

Meanwhile, at the dawn of the New Year -----
Masked Palestinian gunmen kidnapped an Italian during a visit by a European group to the Gaza Strip on Sunday. Israel Radio said the Italian was a peace activist.

No threat of death implied, this is just a peaceful guy, in the arms of the peaceful Mujahadeen, he'll be fine, nothing to see here, move along...
 
Not only did they kidnap an Italian peace activist they BLEW UP the UN's beachfront social club!

Monday January 1, 2006

capt.sge.sbr02.010106150528.photo00.photo.default-384x245.jpg


Palestinian men inspect the damaged drinking hall of a club for the United Nations. (AFP/Mahmud Hams)

GAZA CITY (AFP) - Palestinian militants have added to the turmoil in the Gaza Strip by kidnapping an Italian peace activist and detonating explosives at the UN's beachfront social club after ending a year-long truce.

The targeting of both foreigners and of Israelis in a series of rocket attacks served as a double blow to the crumbling authority of Palestinian leader Mahmud Abbas, who said armed groups were making a serious mistake by declaring an end to the "cooldown".

Abbas has been a consistent critic of rocket attacks and has urged the factions to stop regarding themselves above the law.

But rather than reverse a tide of lawlessness since Israel left Gaza in September, Abbas has presided over a worsening of the chaos.

Barely a day after the release of three Britons who were kidnappend near Gaza's border with Egypt, an Italian peace activist was kidnapped on Sunday in the southern border city of Khan Yunis.

The male activist had been part of a group of around 20 Italians on a mission designed to show solidarity with the Palestinian people.

...a handful of the UN's foreign staff have left Gaza but the organisation was still the target of a gunmen overnight who stormed its club on the shores of the Mediterranean, beat up a lone security guard on duty and then detonated a number of hand grenades, according to Palestinian security sources.
Click to expand...
The "doofus" factor meter is pinned at "10"....and it has been since 1993.
 
Drinking Club

Hamas is a fundamentalist islamic organization, and I believe their reasoning for the New Year's Eve fireworks at the UN club was the serving of alcohol.

They pretty much took it upon themselves to bring the Jericho Oasis CASINO to a point of closure as well, IIRC.

http://www.gamblingmagazine.com/articles/40/40-398.htm
  • The $150-million casino and hotel complex, founded by Palestinian and Austrian investors in 1998, was the largest private employer in the West Bank. Its closing is the highest-profile example of the damage done to the local economy by the latest fighting; experts say the Palestinian territories have lost about $3-billion since the uprising began.
 
Skeptic said:
From http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/663890.html :

A statement from the family of Kate Burton, one of the three British observers kidnapped by Palestinian gunmen:



And from the chief idiot, Ms. Kate Burton herself:



Translation:

"That's OK, kidnap me / kidnap our daughter! I realize you're only doing it because you are opressed by the evil jews! I won't even say anything bad about you--that's so unfair to your image!"
Click to expand...

As usual, Skeptic, one of our local "Israel-right-or wrong" fanatics, imposes his creative but partisan interpretation on events. As usual, he assumes too much from to little.

Here's another interpretation that fits what the article linked by Skeptic says, and which I find much more likely if you consider that no-one likes to be kidnapped and pushed around, even activists... (But what do I really know anyway? Unlike Skeptic, I don't claim to be able to guess what people think.) Let me see, you're kidnapped by a bunch of thugs while doing humanitarian work with Palestinians. You are released by the thugs. You wish to keep working in the occupied territories with a minimum of hassle. What do you do? Do you courageously (but stupidly) call your kidnappers "a bunch of thugs", making sure that you can't go back to the occupied territories without being shot at? Or do you just go "yeah, we were kidnapped, but were ok now". These people are often walking a fine line, with the Israelis on one side using any excuse they can find to expel activists, and Palestinian extremists on the other kidnapping (or worse) for political gain...

So, who's right, who's wrong? Can you tell? See, there's all kinds of interpretations you can give to events, particularly when you don't have any data whatsoever and you let yourself be guided by your own particular prejudices.

By the way, if certain activists are so called "useful idiots" form the point of view of Palestinian extremists, the "Israel-right-or-wrong" crowd are Israel's "useful idiots".
 
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Right vs. Wrong

Orwell asks:
"So, who's right, who's wrong? Can you tell?"

Yes, it 's pretty easy to tell.

1. Kidnapping at gunpoint. Reason for Kidnapping: Demand Israelis cease enforcing "no-go" zone in an uninhabited area of Gaza, used for launching missiles at Israel.
2. Mujahadeen Brigades, after negotiating the release of their hostages, seeing that it will get them nowhere -- kidnap again.
3. http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/01/gaza.hostage.ap/index.html
  • Bernardini later told reporters that he was treated well in captivity, receiving tea and cigarettes, and that he remained committed to the Palestinian cause. "I'm not going to change my ideas about the Palestinians," he said.

    However, EU lawmaker Luisa Morgantini, a longtime pro-Palestinian activist, said the incident was bad for the Palestinians. "I am very sorry for the Palestinians, because their struggle should not be led like that," she said.

No kidding! Their struggle is a joke, if you look at it objectively.
Well, here's our useful idiot of the day, Mr Alessandro Bernardini.
Thank you for playing --- please take our parting gift, a Home-Game Edition of the JREF Forums.

This is a fun thread! It could go on for a while...
 
webfusion said:
Orwell asks:
"So, who's right, who's wrong? Can you tell?"

Yes, it 's pretty easy to tell.

1. Kidnapping at gunpoint. Reason for Kidnapping: Demand Israelis cease enforcing "no-go" zone in an uninhabited area of Gaza, used for launching missiles at Israel.
2. Mujahadeen Brigades, after negotiating the release of their hostages, seeing that it will get them nowhere -- kidnap again.
3. http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/01/01/gaza.hostage.ap/index.html
  • Bernardini later told reporters that he was treated well in captivity, receiving tea and cigarettes, and that he remained committed to the Palestinian cause. "I'm not going to change my ideas about the Palestinians," he said.

    However, EU lawmaker Luisa Morgantini, a longtime pro-Palestinian activist, said the incident was bad for the Palestinians. "I am very sorry for the Palestinians, because their struggle should not be led like that," she said.

No kidding! Their struggle is a joke, if you look at it objectively.
Well, here's our useful idiot of the day, Mr Alessandro Bernardini.
Thank you for playing --- please take our parting gift, a Home-Game Edition of the JREF Forums.

This is a fun thread! It could go on for a while...
Click to expand...

That wasn't what "Skeptic's" first post was about, and that wasn't what I was talking about either. As for the Palestinian struggle being "a joke", well, careful with that, your contempt for Palestinians is showing...
 
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Orwell said:
That wasn't what "Skeptic's" first post was about, and that wasn't what I was talking about either. As for the Palestinian struggle being "a joke", well, careful with that, your contempt for Palestinians is showing...
Click to expand...

One can respect the Palestinians themselves while still calling their struggle a joke. All one needs to do is recognize these actions get them nowhere.

It's heartbreaking, really. Once again so much is within their grasp, they're just unable to reach out and take it.
 
Mycroft said:
All one needs to do is recognize these actions get them nowhere.
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The Palestinians have created a no win situation. They call for Jihad and the destruction of Israel. There is no compromise in their rhetoric. The Israelis don't appear to be leaving and the Palestinian actions will not bring about the destruction of Israel.

As long as the Palestinians and their leaders refuse to see any possibility of the existence of Israel there will be no cessation to the violence.
 
RandFan said:
The Palestinians have created a no win situation. They call for Jihad and the destruction of Israel. There is no compromise in their rhetoric. The Israelis don't appear to be leaving and the Palestinian actions will not bring about the destruction of Israel.

As long as the Palestinians and their leaders refuse to see any possibility of the existence of Israel there will be no cessation to the violence.
Click to expand...

Now, you have to be careful with something: which Palestinians are you talking about?

Another thing: opposing Palestinian extremists doesn't imply that you have to support every stupid thing the Israeli gov. does, a little something a few people on this forum tend to forget.
 
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Mycroft said:
One can respect the Palestinians themselves while still calling their struggle a joke. All one needs to do is recognize these actions get them nowhere.
Click to expand...

I very much doubt that a Palestinian (even a reasonable one i.e. not an extremist) would agree with that. From what you and Webfusion have said so far on this forum, I don't think Palestinians in general would feel much respect coming from either of you, but what do I know, eh?
 
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