Cont: Rioters storm and occupy the US Capitol - part 2

[Segnosaur]

In their minds, they were trying thwart an attempt to formalize fraudulent election results. Thus, they would be preventing the installation of an illegitimate regime.

The fact that the election was valid and not subject to any sort of widespread fraud was widely reported news. Over and over again, we heard (even from republicans such as Bill Barr) that the Biden win was legitimate.

Someone to maintaining the lie that the election was "stolen" is not merely some ignorant but well-meaning rube who got tricked, but a person who either knew that the election was valid (but just didn't like the result), or someone who has gone out of their way to deny reality.

 

[Warp12]

The fact that the election was valid and not subject to any sort of widespread fraud was widely reported news. Over and over again, we heard (even from republicans such as Bill Barr) that the Biden win was legitimate.

Someone to maintaining the lie that the election was "stolen" is not merely some ignorant but well-meaning rube who got tricked, but a person who either knew that the election was valid (but just didn't like the result), or someone who has gone out of their way to deny reality.

Widely reported news by the "liberal media". Stop trying to think rationally; you have to think like a conspiracy theorist and/or die-hard Trumper. What was their leader directly telling them?

 

[Belz...]

Widely reported news by the "liberal media". Stop trying to think rationally; you have to think like a conspiracy theorist and/or die-hard Trumper. What was their leader directly telling them?

There's no reason that they were doing "the right thing" in their minds. But if that belief was unreasonable, then their actions cannot be called commendable.

 

[Warp12]

There's no reason that they were doing "the right thing" in their minds. But if that belief was unreasonable, then their actions cannot be called commendable.

I never said their actions were commendable; I said it was commendable that they took action while believing they were protecting our democracy. I also said they were morons.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I never said their actions were commendable; I said it was.commendable that they took action while believing they were protecting our democracy.

*Rubs the bridge of my nose* I have a headache.

 

[Belz...]

I never said their actions were commendable; I said it was commendable that they took action while believing they were protecting our democracy.

...Their actions were not commendable, but it's commendable that they took those actions?

Are you joking?

 

[Segnosaur]

The fact that the election was valid and not subject to any sort of widespread fraud was widely reported news. Over and over again, we heard (even from republicans such as Bill Barr) that the Biden win was legitimate.

Widely reported news by the "liberal media". Stop trying to think rationally; you have to think like a conspiracy theorist and/or die-hard Trumper. What was their leader directly telling them?

Even Fox news (the standard-bearer of Right-wing nutcases for years, hardly part of the "liberal media") carried the story of Barr admitting there was no election fraud.

So those "brave defenders of democracy" (as you claim they see themselves) would have been exposed to the message (from right-wing sources!) that "Trump is lying about the stolen election". Yet they went ahead and engaged in terrorism.

 

[Warp12]

...Their actions were not commendable, but it's commendable that they took those actions?

Are you joking?

You keep paraphrasing in the direction of what you want to pretend I said.

So, I'm sorry, but I can't debate on those terms.

 

[Warp12]

Even Fox news (the standard-bearer of Right-wing nutcases for years, hardly part of the "liberal media") carried the story of Barr admitting there was no election fraud.

So those "brave defenders of democracy" (as you claim they see themselves) would have been exposed to the message (from right-wing sources!) that "Trump is lying about the stolen election". Yet they went ahead and engaged in terrorism.

Why would you listen to Fox? They were running a giant Biden banner on election day. Barr? Clearly he was a traitor. Again, why listen to anyone besides the #1 source...Trump.

 

[Belz...]

You keep paraphrasing in the direction of what you want to pretend I said.

So, I'm sorry, but I can't debate on those terms.

What are you babbling about? It's the same wording. You're trying to create a distinction because you are WORDING it differently. Do you know how ridiculous that sounds?

 

[carlitos]

I never said their actions were commendable; I said it was commendable that they took action while believing they were protecting our democracy. I also said they were morons.

Sorry, but this makes no sense. 1 - you don't know what they believe, and 2 - "belief" would justify all kinds of terrible crimes by your logic.

 

[Warp12]

Sorry, but this makes no sense. 1 - you don't know what they believe, and 2 - "belief" would justify all kinds of terrible crimes by your logic.

I never justified their specific actions.

I commended the concept of taking action for what could be considered a noble cause, defending democracy. I believe that they clearly felt the election had been stolen.

They were also morons for believing that.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Basically you're arguing they should get extra moral credit for being stupid idiots.

That's insane.

"Wrong + Evil" doesn't loop back to some kind of backhanded "At least they were following their conventions" nonsense.

 

[Warp12]

Basically you're arguing they should get extra moral credit for being stupid idiots.
.

Nope. That wouldn't be the argument.

 

[Belz...]

Nope. That wouldn't be the argument.

At this point it seems you didn't actually have any argument or point.

 

[jimbob]

I don't think you've thought this through. For example, are mass shooters commendable in any way? They act on the stupid crap they believe as well. All monsters and villains do the same.

Say what you like, but at least Al Qaeda suicide terrorists have the courage of their convictions.

 

[Warp12]

Say what you like, but at least Al Qaeda suicide terrorists have the courage of their convictions.

...and to praise them for that would not be endorsing their actions.

 

[Belz...]

...and to praise them for that would not be endorsing their actions.

It would, however, if he had said it was commendable.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Say what you like, but at least Al Qaeda suicide terrorists have the courage of their convictions.

I don't think MAGA CHUDs have anywhere near the same levels of courage. The extreme right is well acclimated to being coddled by law enforcement in this country and generally speaking have much less fear of consequences for their actions. The average Al Qaeda fighter likely understands that their stance places them in extreme danger, and a suicide bomber knows that death is certain.

Up until Babbit got 360 no scoped by the capitol police, the capitol rioters were having quite an easy go of their attack and were only meeting light resistance from the under prepared and understaffed police.

The criminal fallout of the attack is probably a very unwelcome and sobering surprise for these people. It wasn't courage that drove them forward, it was the complete absence of any fear of consequence.

 

[JoeMorgue]

They only have the courage of other people's convictions.