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Free Britney!

Belz... said:
Has it occured to you that the reason she doesn't want one is that she tried that before but the doctor would rather believe her conservator?
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This might be true, but perhaps she should try again, and explain how her behavior has improved (after some real changes), how she has become a more stable and rational person now.

Trying to avoid the doctor/psychiatrist doesn't seem a good idea to me. Doctors are key people in our society, particularly in her situation, and their fundamental goal and purpose is (or should be) to help, not to deprive people of their own phones. I guess she has the (financial) means to consult many physicians, including excellent ones, who can advise and advocate for her.
 
Perhaps she does need to be "locked away", I'm not at all assuming she isn't actually crazy. But whether she's crazy or not she shouldn't be a cash cow for other people.
 
Michel H said:
This might be true, but perhaps she should try again, and explain how her behavior has improved (after some real changes), how she has become a more stable and rational person now.

Trying to avoid the doctor/psychiatrist doesn't seem a good idea to me. Doctors are key people in our society, particularly in her situation, and their fundamental goal and purpose is (or should be) to help, not to deprive people of their own phones. I guess she has the (financial) means to consult many physicians, including excellent ones, who can advise and advocate for her.
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No she doesn't.
 
Belz... said:
You're really committed to the idea that she needs to be locked away.
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Incorrect. But, I see nothing to support ending the conservatorship, yet.

Let her and her representation file a petition to end the conservatorship, and let her get evaluated (as will likely be required). Then let the chips fall where they may.

She said she wants to sue her family. Let's see that case, too.

Until then, everyone can chant "Free Britney" and theorize about all of the injustice that is taking place. It's the stuff that tabloids are made of...after all, much of the "evidence" that people cite comes directly from such sources.
 
Warp12 said:
Let her and her representation file a petition to end the conservatorship, and let her get evaluated (as will likely be required). Then let the chips fall where they may.
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"I really don't understand why these slaves are complaining about all those whippings. If they want to stop being slaves they should hire a lawyer, or petition their representative!"
 
Warp12 said:
Incorrect. But, I see nothing to support ending the conservatorship, yet.

Let her and her representation file a petition to end the conservatorship, and let her get evaluated (as will likely be required). Then let the chips fall where they may.

She said she wants to sue her family. Let's see that case, too.

Until then, everyone can chant "Free Britney" and theorize about all of the injustice that is taking place. It's the stuff that tabloids are made of...after all, much of the "evidence" that people cite comes directly from such sources.
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She can't hire her own lawyer.
 
Warp12 said:
Incorrect. But, I see nothing to support ending the conservatorship, yet.

Let her and her representation file a petition to end the conservatorship, and let her get evaluated (as will likely be required). Then let the chips fall where they may.

She said she wants to sue her family. Let's see that case, too.

Until then, everyone can chant "Free Britney" and theorize about all of the injustice that is taking place. It's the stuff that tabloids are made of...after all, much of the "evidence" that people cite comes directly from such sources.
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You're achieving "Why didn't the slaves just vote to make slavery illegal?" levels of fake, showy obtuseness.
 
Warp12 said:
.....
Until then, everyone can chant "Free Britney" and theorize about all of the injustice that is taking place. It's the stuff that tabloids are made of...after all, much of the "evidence" that people cite comes directly from such sources.
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Much of the evidence comes from her own mouth. The underlying issue is whether she should have to prove that the conservatorship should end, or whether the people who benefit from her conservatorship should have to prove that it's still required. Whether she is mentally ill is secondary; mental illness is typically treated without imposing a conservatorship. She has essentially been sentenced to house arrest without a trial and without a release date.
 
TragicMonkey said:
Perhaps she does need to be "locked away", I'm not at all assuming she isn't actually crazy. But whether she's crazy or not she shouldn't be a cash cow for other people.
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It is the "cash cow" aspect that renders the whole conservatorship thing suspect. Her dad, the lawyer, and probably a whole bunch of other people are getting way too much money, and have way too much to lose if the conservatorship is ended, for it not to smell really bad. I do remember a lot of press coverage about her erratic behavior before the conservatorship was imposed, but at this point, I have to wonder how much of that was orchestrated by her dad to help make the case for the conservatorship. Whatever Britney's mental state might be, it seems that the conservatorship's primary interest is in generating revenue to keep paying the big fees, not Britney's well being.
 
Legalities et cetera apart, what kind of absolute lowlife of a father actually does this kind of thing to his own daughter? What kind of utterly worthless good-for-nothing mooches off their own child all their life like this? That whole bunch of leeches should be stripped of every cent they've made off her, and carted off to jail.
 
Chanakya said:
Legalities et cetera apart, what kind of absolute lowlife of a father actually does this kind of thing to his own daughter? What kind of utterly worthless good-for-nothing mooches off their own child all their life like this? That whole bunch of leeches should be stripped of every cent they've made off her, and carted off to jail.
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Playing devil's advocate: what once might have been a good arrangement, Dad encouraging Britney's creativity and singing, for her own wellbeing and happiness, and taking the pressure off her by dealing with all her bills and stopping some lothario after another getting his hands on loads of her wealth, might have been a good idea once. Now Britney sees it as imprisonment.

I believe her father likely is a bully who has become wealthy through his daughter. However, you recall Agneta in ABBA? She was pursued by a 'fan', - some say stalked - whom she married and I don't think it ended well, with her becoming a recluse on a Swedish island. Then there was Sandy Denny, who some believe died by throwing herself down the stairs. Her 'fan' husband took control of her career and marketed her. Some say these guys do it to line their own pockets, others say they were actually protecting their vulnerable loved one.

There are sharks out there.
 
Vixen said:
Playing devil's advocate: what once might have been a good arrangement, Dad encouraging Britney's creativity and singing, for her own wellbeing and happiness, and taking the pressure off her by dealing with all her bills and stopping some lothario after another getting his hands on loads of her wealth, might have been a good idea once. Now Britney sees it as imprisonment.

I believe her father likely is a bully who has become wealthy through his daughter. However, you recall Agneta in ABBA? She was pursued by a 'fan', - some say stalked - whom she married and I don't think it ended well, with her becoming a recluse on a Swedish island. Then there was Sandy Denny, who some believe died by throwing herself down the stairs. Her 'fan' husband took control of her career and marketed her. Some say these guys do it to line their own pockets, others say they were actually protecting their vulnerable loved one.

There are sharks out there.
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There are sharks out there aplenty, sure. And the net effect would have been the same for her, had it been someone else doing something similar to her. Just, when some guys "sharks" off this own daughter, that raises it, or lowers it, to a whole different level.

Never really gave Britney Spears a second thought, ever, or even a first thought, before this thing caught my eye.

It's super gross, this business, on two counts. First, the whole slavery angle, for all practical purposes (assuming all --- or most, or even for that matter, some --- of what we're reading here is true, about her being practically coerced to work, and not being allowed to have kids, and so on). And second, that it's her own father doing it.
 
Chanakya said:
There are sharks out there aplenty, sure. And the net effect would have been the same for her, had it been someone else doing something similar to her. Just, when some guys "sharks" off this own daughter, that raises it, or lowers it, to a whole different level.

Never really gave Britney Spears a second thought, ever, or even a first thought, before this thing caught my eye.

It's super gross, this business, on two counts. First, the whole slavery angle, for all practical purposes (assuming all --- or most, or even for that matter, some --- of what we're reading here is true, about her being practically coerced to work, and not being allowed to have kids, and so on). And second, that it's her own father doing it.
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I recall some of the incidents that happened with Britney leading up to this. She had some kind of nervous breakdown and battle over her children (I might misremember that) and it was terribly sad to witness just how publicly ill she was.

I hope she is now better and manages to handle her own affairs.
 
Darat said:
Warp12 said:
Obviously there have been others. She mentions it in the transcript.

But, the telling thing is...she is refusing to be evaluated again. If you want out so bad, and are mentally sound, why refuse an evaluation?
"I want out of this mental hospital. But, I refuse any evaluation that might deem me sane".
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Which others?
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A psych eval led to Britney Spears being deemed incapacitated and that lead to the conservatorship.

From the book, "Guardianship Fraud":

Those with financial assets are targeted by rogue attorneys and guardians who strategically use a conjured "incapacity" which they obtain from their colluding medical providers as a justification to force defenseless adults into a guardianship nightmare – they are living adults in a system of probate laws dealing with the dead. They lose all of their civil rights and liberties. They have less rights than death row prisoners.​

Will Britney get an accurate psych evaluation going forward?

Larsen, Michael. Guardianship Fraud. Germain, 2016. Introduction page xii
 
Checkmite said:
I don't think you quite understand what a conservatorship is.
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The trouble is you're so caught up in your view that you refuse to read for comprehension. Never mind the horrific commas, you're not exactly writing for comprehension.

She does not pay this guy.
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Except she is paying him. She owns the estate. To choose an article at random -- "Spears has had to pay him $16,000 each month, according to court documents reviewed by Forbes."

If you knew how to argue, you'd dispense with the semantic wanking and stick to the substance: She does not want to pay him, but she's paying him.

She cannot do anything with her own money, without this guy's explicit permission.
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Overdramatic to the point of lying. He oversees her estate and the court oversees him.

This guy, pays this guy. And is also authorized to spend her money on things that coincidentally benefit himself independently of his "salary".
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Weak. He's paid a court-ordered salary. Given the size of the estate, he couldn't do it pro-bono if he wanted to. Also, I love the happy play of suggesting malfeasance without the burden of establishing it. The term you're groping for is self-dealing. If he's engaged in self-dealing, then he should be replaced, but the argument is not against this particular conservator as it is against the conservatorship in principle.
 
Cain said:
Overdramatic to the point of lying.
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Really, he's the one who cleared up the semantic nonsense in order to cut to the heart of the matter. I don't think either of you is being dishonest, but the point of the matter is that, wording aside, she has no money of her own, effectively speaking.
 
Ernie M said:
A psych eval led to Britney Spears being deemed incapacitated and that lead to the conservatorship.

From the book, "Guardianship Fraud":

Those with financial assets are targeted by rogue attorneys and guardians who strategically use a conjured "incapacity" which they obtain from their colluding medical providers as a justification to force defenseless adults into a guardianship nightmare – they are living adults in a system of probate laws dealing with the dead. They lose all of their civil rights and liberties. They have less rights than death row prisoners.​

Will Britney get an accurate psych evaluation going forward?

Larsen, Michael. Guardianship Fraud. Germain, 2016. Introduction page xii
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The second link in my initial post described an extensive conservatorship fraud in which doctors and judges were complicit. If Spears doesn't want to be examined by a shrink chosen by her conservators, maybe it's because that's how she got locked down in the first place.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-the-elderly-lose-their-rights
 
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