Medium to the Stars?

[Pixel42]

The only claim I'm making about Henry is that he has yet to produce any objective evidence of his supposed paranormal ability. Until and unless he does, there is nothing to discuss.

 

[abaddon]

That's correct. Henry is likely to be able to hot read what is in the box because he can ask you, as a fan of the show, to do him a solid, tell him in advance what's in the box, all the better to convince the audience that he's really genuine, like you already know he is but sometimes the spirits' eyesight isn't so good and they can't quite make out what it is even though they think it's shiny and a little worn and not worth a lot of money. And in return he can include you on a segment of the show being amazed when he identifies it correctly. That might not sound very tempting, but imagine if you were a minor celebrity; that would make you not only a fan but a professional entertainer doing a favor for another, and the exposure of an appearance on the show would be much more valuable to you.

There's no way abbadon would be able to do any of that. You're not his fan! And he has no TV show!

It is why stopped doing it. It was immoral and unethical the moment I copped that some were taking it for real. That ended it for me

Sphinx falling for the john edward crapfest was the final faceslap.

 

[the Sphinx]

Alvarez and Wegener provided evidence.

Yes and they were ridiculed as Loeb has been these past few weeks.

If I get time I'll start sending you quotes from scientists facing ridicule because they suggested the unorthodox. (Later to be vindicated), This is especially true with anthropology (My quote doc is on a different Mac).

Back to basics: Don't hide behind peer review. If you have claims regarding Henry, let me see. The hot and cold reading claim is ridiculous.

 

[Resume]

I've never heard of Popoff, he's going to have his own national TV show reading people he's never met based on publicly available web information and their facial expressions. I'd love to see this. Can you forward the link?

Peter Popoff is a christian faith healer huckster who was exposed by James Randi. He used information from the audience gathered by his wife who communicated it to him via an earpiece.

 

[Wolrab]

Yes and they were ridiculed as Loeb has been these past few weeks.

If I get time I'll start sending you quotes from scientists facing ridicule because they suggested the unorthodox. (Later to be vindicated), This is especially true with anthropology (My quote doc is on a different Mac).

Back to basics: Don't hide behind peer review. If you have claims regarding Henry, let me see. The hot and cold reading claim is ridiculous.

Are they laughed at now that evidence has backed up their theories?

 

[Resume]

Don't be a moron. The TV show isn't the evidence. The evidence comes from all the things that are inferred in order to produce such a show

Yes, you infer that this mentalist has psychic gifts and I infer he's doing parlor tricks perhaps enhanced by editing that is used by every TV show ever.

How do we determine who is correct?

Oh yeah, a properly controlled experiment with a protocol to eliminate bias.

 

[xjx388]

What is ludicrous is that you clearly have never watched the show, and if you do decide to watch, you'll see at once the type of information he provides--not always--could not possibly be discovered for a hot reading.

Right now I'm sitting in a room with a small box (for real) and in that box is something that is precious to me from my deceased father. There isn't any way on God's earth you could "hot read" what is in the box. Henry can. And even if they edited out five misses, to get this one box hit right, and you are looking a monstrous odds that statistically make the misses meaningless.

The whole "hot reading" thing is over-blown and I would suggest no one could practically use it to conduct a reading. The time to research it alone would make it financially impractical.

I’d bet that Henry, were you to shell out for a private reading, wouldn’t even mention the box unless you specifically mentioned it yourself. What I would do is go to the reading and say, “I want to connect with the person who gave me what is in this box.” And then zip my lips other then “hmmm…” and see if he could get there on his own.

And see, you’ve already given some pretty good clues as to what’s in the box; for starters, who gave it to you. Judging by your description, It’s going to be something relatively obscure and not “precious” in it’s own right like a fishing lure or a birthday card, not something obvious like a pocket watch or military medal. A little cold/hot reading and information provided by you during a session could be enough to lead to some close guesses. Even so, if it’s something really obscure, not even Tyler Henry could come close in 100 guesses -unless of course you volunteered substantially more info.

As far as research for hot reading, the internet and social media has made this task far easier. For celebrities, Google is enough to get good material. It takes a couple hours tops to glean enough insight to embellish on for someone really well known. Add in a few research assistants and it’s child’s play. Don’t discount the possibility of using private investigators. Ancestry.com is a great source to find obscure information.

 

[Myriad]

Either the entire show is a fraud, reaching up to the highest TV network executive level--people with reputations to protect--and other people on the crew who don't believe but won't come forward to acknowledge people are being used, hundreds of employees over four years OR Henry is likely who he says he is. I don't see the in-between.

The in-between is that the crews and network executives don't care either way. It's just entertainment. If you watch, their reputation for doing their jobs (from getting the shot to getting you to watch) is in fine shape. There are dozens of shows about total nonsense, from scripted drama presented as "reality shows" to "documentaries" about ancient aliens. No one's reputation suffers from those.

I hope you do interview the network executives, as part of your earnest efforts to provide evidence that the show you're a fan of is real. I don't think you will succeed in that, or even try, but if you did I can make my own psychic prediction of what they will say. Something very much like: "We don't take any position on who's telling the truth. That's up to the viewers to decide. If the show makes you think, we've done our job."

The lobby to get information in the 15 minutes you have before everyone is seated as the basis for performing a hot reading keeping all those people and their image straight, for 90 minutes, this is ridiculous.

No lobby is needed for the show we're talking about. Henry "reads" facts about relatives of celebrities. Those facts are either already publicly known (that's what "celebrity" means), or anyone involved in the show could easily ask them during the production. These aren't live interviews about breaking events on a news broadcast. It's an entertainment show. For each celebrity and each location, hours are spent on make-up, lighting, and other production details. Plenty of time for small talk.

 

[Pixel42]

Yes and they were ridiculed as Loeb has been these past few weeks.

If I get time I'll start sending you quotes from scientists facing ridicule because they suggested the unorthodox. (Later to be vindicated), This is especially true with anthropology (My quote doc is on a different Mac).

Once again: utterly irrelevant. The claims are not comparable at all.

Back to basics: Don't hide behind peer review. If you have claims regarding Henry, let me see. The hot and cold reading claim is ridiculous.

There is plenty of evidence of it happening (did you read the article on Derren Brown? His act is a lot more impressive than Henry's, achieved without benefit of paranormal abilities). It's the claim that Henry is communicating with the dead that is patently ridiculous.

 

[Resume]

<respectful snippage> Add in a few research assistants and it’s child’s play. Don’t discount the possibility of using private investigators. Ancestry.com is a great source to find obscure information.

Any production assistant worth their money could gather up all sorts of personal material; that's what their job would be in this situation.

 

[autumn1971]

It’s not even fraudulent. I guarantee that for a moment during the credits there is a disclaimer in tiny letters confirming that the readings are for entertainment purposes only and are not to be taken as actual psychic abilities.

They tell you it’s fake or else they might get sued.

 

[the Sphinx]

It is why stopped doing it. It was immoral and unethical the moment I copped that some were taking it for real. That ended it for me

Sphinx falling for the john edward crapfest was the final faceslap.

There is no doubt John Edward has an ability that other people do not have. This is obvious by observing him especially during the period when he did readings with his chair turned around so he could not see the person he was reading. How accurate he is, whether he cheats, I don't keep up with him.

Gallop poll last week stated that 38% of Americans believe they have communicated with a deceased loved one. Same poll in 2008 had the percentage at 28%.

 

[the Sphinx]

It’s not even fraudulent. I guarantee that for a moment during the credits there is a disclaimer in tiny letters confirming that the readings are for entertainment purposes only and are not to be taken as actual psychic abilities.

They tell you it’s fake or else they might get sued.

I've not seen that disclaimer, and it would not matter as it is abundantly clear to anyone that the show is about Henry communicating with the dead and that his abilities are real. That is directly stated, and I don't see how he gets sued given the First amendment.

I think it is reasonable if you watch the show, to see that Henry believes what he is doing is real. Either that or he's the world's greatest actor.

 

[Pixel42]

Why Does It Say "This Programme Is For Entertainment Purposes Only" Before Paranormal Television Shows

That's applies to here in the UK, but I imagine the US has something similar.

 

[the Sphinx]

Any production assistant worth their money could gather up all sorts of personal material; that's what their job would be in this situation.

You are suggesting that on the google list I searched identifying 24 reality TV shows that have been outed, the production assistant didn't do his/her job? Or the crew couldn't find their way around one-assistant. What about their fear of being sued if found out? That crew is wide open for a civil charges.

80 people involved in deliberate, focused dishonesty down to editing tapes and furnishing "hot" research that could take days, and nobody on crew comes forward to blow the whistle on fraud of a nationwide massive scale? Really?

Not one family member involved ln a separate room with a separate monitor and access to the crew, steps forward to say this isn't right? Hundreds of people getting fake readings while love ones look on and nobody says this isn't right?

 

[Pixel42]

I assume everyone involved is being paid. Maybe they think anyone gullible enough to take it seriously deserves to be hoodwinked, maybe they're being fooled themselves. Either way they have no incentive to blow the whistle, and every incentive to go along with it in return for further pay days.

 

[the Sphinx]

Why Does It Say "This Programme Is For Entertainment Purposes Only" Before Paranormal Television Shows

It actually doesn't. You just made that up. And even if it did such a claim does not protect against deliberate fraud.

Bill couldn't keep one woman, Monica, hidden, but you've got Henry involved in one of the greatest scandals, and 80 people on crew (who go home to a wife and neighbors who tell friends) and you think that stays hidden? Or that the lawyers care about something saying "entertainment," when there is direct massive fraud to be claimed? If Henry is a fraud besides being the greatest actor who ever lived, he's going to be found out.

In fact, the best argument for Henry being real is the same one against the folks who believe the US did not go to the Moon. Nobody in a fake Moon studio or in Henry's case, in somebody's house after a death, could possibly act that well. Not even Brando could pull that off.

 

[the Sphinx]

I assume everyone involved is being paid. Maybe they think anyone gullible enough to take it seriously deserves to be hoodwinked, maybe they're being fooled themselves. Either way they have no incentive to blow the whistle, and every incentive to go along with it in return for further pay days.

Good try but there is no way 80 people keep quiet over a four-year period on something for which the fraud would be massive. And then you have the clients and their families needing to keep quiet about the reading--hundreds of people per month.

I've counted 24 outed reality shows. And Henry's show with real fraud--not like say "Catfish"--isn't outed? I don't think so.

 

[autumn1971]

I've not seen that disclaimer, and it would not matter as it is abundantly clear to anyone that the show is about Henry communicating with the dead and that his abilities are real. That is directly stated, and I don't see how he gets sued given the First amendment.

I think it is reasonable if you watch the show, to see that Henry believes what he is doing is real. Either that or he's the world's greatest actor.

The disclaimer matters to the legal department regardless of what Henry thinks of his abilities.
Even little roadside shacks advertising readings have a little disclaimer on their signs.

That said, Henry almost certainly is a fairly good actor, because pious frauds are usually pretty bad at what they’re doing.

I also think you’re unfamiliar with what “hot reading” is. Hot reads are giving information that is already known by the performer. For example I cannot hot read what is in your box right now, but given only information you’ve given on this forum I can hit read the existence of a box contains something you find personally dear that reminds you of your deceased father. After that revelation cold reading could probably draw out info on the size of the box, which allows reasonable limits on its contents.

The trick is that an initial hot read will cause the subject to be much more forthcoming in response to follow-up questions. Often people explicitly give the performer information that they later attribute to the performer.

I believe that Edwards and Sylvia Brown were pretty blatant with asking guests to submit little snippets on cards about what they wished to find out about.

 

[Pixel42]

It actually doesn't. You just made that up.

Of course it does. It's a legal requirement in the UK, as the article explains.

And even if it did such a claim does not protect against deliberate fraud.

Yes it does, as the article explains.

Bill couldn't keep one woman, Monica, hidden, but you've got Henry involved in one of the greatest scandals, and 80 people on crew (who go home to a wife and neighbors who tell friends) and you think that stays hidden?

What great scandal? It's a trashy TV show. Nobody takes it seriously except the gullible fools they're using it to sell stuff to.

Or that the lawyers care about something saying "entertainment," when there is direct massive fraud to be claimed? If Henry is a fraud besides being the greatest actor who ever lived, he's going to be found out.

Caveat emptor is the usual defence. Like when Fox News defended one of their blatant liars by arguing that no reasonable person would believe a word of it, a defence which was accepted.

In fact, the best argument for Henry being real is the same one against the folks who believe the US did not go to the Moon. Nobody in a fake Moon studio or in Henry's case, in somebody's house after a death, could possibly act that well. Not even Brando could pull that off.

I once saw a TV play in which Nigel Hawthorne played a medium who'd been faking it for years, and then started to develop genuine powers. There was a riveting scene of a seance and, watching it, I actually thought "well if he's faking that he's a bloody good actor". It took a couple of seconds for me to remember that I was watching a TV play, and feel very foolish. I mean, I knew Hawthorne was a bloody good actor, one of our best. So yes, actors can be very convincing.