• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Cont: The Trump Presidency: Part 27

Status
Not open for further replies.
Stacyhs said:
You're conflating 'friend' with 'confidant'. I never said Trump was Cohen's 'friend'; I said Cohen was his confidant. A 'friend' assumes loyalty which Trump does not know the meaning of. Sorry, Norman, but you're arguing from a point of ignorance as you haven't read Cohen's book. You don't know what was involved. Instead of trying to defend the hill you've taken a stand on, try reading Disloyal and then maybe you can make a better argument.
Click to expand...
I don't need to read Cohen's book to understand T**** at least a little bit. He's a raging malignant narcissist, so nobody...NOBODY! ever gets close to being as important as he is to himself. You would think that his wife would be the closest confidant he has in this world. And yet he has cheated on all of them with careless abandon, and that involves hiding his thoughts from them. His closest family are just arm-candy, to be changed when they age. Even his own children are a bunch of careless chancers still vying for his attention.

Cohen may have been a close acquaintance for 10 years, certainly, closer than most other people in Donny's circle. But whatever he says about his relationship with Donny, he was not really his confidant, even as much as a wife might be. Donny told him only as much as he might tell any personal lawyer, which is simply what he wanted done, be it paying off a casual hooker or arranging to bribe a judge to get him off yet another law suit. He would have given reasons not as one would to a confidant but to a tradesman charged with a duty to perform. Failure to perform (getting caught or snitching counts here) leads to banishment from Donny's close circle.

The only true confidant for Donny is his own ego, that is all. Everyone else...everyone else...is a useful gofer or an acquaintance of some sort, or they are simply not worth his imperial consideration. Cohen went from the former to the latter, that is all.
 
Add Paul Ryan to the list of former GOP leaders (such as John Boehner) who enabled the worst of the GOP abuses, but now claims "The party has gone too far"...

From: CTV News
...former U.S. House Speaker Paul Ryan has joined the fight against Donald Trump, urging fellow conservatives to reject the former president's divisive politics and those Republican leaders who emulate him.

However, unlike Boehner (who had at least left politics by the time Trump became president), Ryan was right there, during the election in 2016, and the first 2 years of Trump's presidency (working to pass their tax cuts and republican health care plan, despite them making no attempt for them to be bipartisan.)
 
Segnosaur said:
Again, it wouldn't necessarily affect his support with the hardcore MAGAchud...

But it may just have an effect on what little support he has remaining among moderate voters... the ones who might have done some mental gymnastics to justify how Trump isn't really a racist for whatever reason (such as "Mexico isn't a race"). The use of the N-word has a certain gravitas to it that makes it a little harder to dismiss.
Click to expand...

My experience is that if one is willing to jump through the “Mexican is not a race” hoop, one is not very likely to say “No, my hearing him use the N-word is a hoop too small for me to jump through. I can no longer support him.”

It is very hard to admit one was wrong about such a big thing as Trump support. And it is even harder to admit one was taken in by a con-man’s glib fast-paced patter.
 
Segnosaur said:
He has an overwhelming majority of support among republican voters, but republicans as a whole are making up a smaller amount of the electorate. So, he has a bigger piece of a shrinking pie.

In the old days, if a republican didn't like their presidential candidate, they'd still stick around the party. But Trumpism is actually driving people out of the party.
Click to expand...


It doesn't seem to matter much. They control legislatures in states where more voters voted for Democrats.
 
quadraginta said:
How much time do you think thy need?

How much time did they need to convince most of their followers that the election was stolen.
Click to expand...

The election crap has been going on for years. Trump had planned a Stop the Steal thing in 2016, when he expected to lose. Even after he won he falsely called shenanigans because Hillary beat him on the popular vote. All these sorts of lies are cultivated over time.

When not properly established, their scams end up like the Hunter Biden fiasco, which was a flop overall.

ETA: Anyway, my post was about generating hate toward an opponent, not the general gullibility of Trumpanzees. Some people still hate Hillary, though there's no good reason to do so apart from baseless GOP smears and idiotic CTs.
 
Last edited:
eerok said:
The election crap has been going on for years. Trump had planned a Stop the Steal thing in 2016, when he expected to lose. Even after he won he falsely called shenanigans because Hillary beat him on the popular vote. All these sorts of lies are cultivated over time.

When not properly established, their scams end up like the Hunter Biden fiasco, which was a flop overall.

ETA: Anyway, my post was about generating hate toward an opponent, not the general gullibility of Trumpanzees. Some people still hate Hillary, though there's no good reason to do so apart from baseless GOP smears and idiotic CTs.
Click to expand...


Did you expect them to change their minds?

They don't do that.

They are primed and ready to believe whatever they are told. I don't think a long build-up time is necessary.
 
Ladewig said:
My experience is that if one is willing to jump through the “Mexican is not a race” hoop, one is not very likely to say “No, my hearing him use the N-word is a hoop too small for me to jump through. I can no longer support him.”

It is very hard to admit one was wrong about such a big thing as Trump support. And it is even harder to admit one was taken in by a con-man’s glib fast-paced patter.
Click to expand...

Fortunately no Trump supporter will ever have to admit the highlighted to themselves.

So there's that. :)
 
Stacyhs said:
I'm not sure about that. Michael Cohen says he never heard Trump use the N word even though he said lots of other racist things. The C-word? Who knows? We know he does like the P word.
Click to expand...

Because I was pretty sure I was reporting what other people said:

Crooks and Liars: Uh oh, with the purchase of MGM by Amazon, Jeff Bezos now owns all the racist words Donald Trump allegedly said during tapings of "The Apprentice."
Former Apprentice Staffer, Noel Casler tweeted: “Trump used the ‘n-word’ to describe contestants on the Apprentice not once or twice, it’s literally how he refers to black people all the time. He especially liked to do it in front of minority crew members.”

Omarosa concurs
Click to expand...
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, this goes back to my comment.

Education isn't going to help when the party is in a different reality, in which that supposed "education" is just wrong.

Consider, for examples, flat earthers. You can show them all the pictures of the earth from outer space that you want, but if they don't accept the existence of satellites and space travel, and therefore insist that it is all a conspiracy, no amount of pictures of the global earth matters. It's a completely different reality with no shared foundation.
Click to expand...

The problem with education as a cure all for all our problems is that people have to be willing to be educated. I think the old "you can lead a horse to water, etc" saying holds true here.
This is why I am skeptical that adding a course in critical thinking to high schools would do that much good. Too many students would see it as just another BS course they have to take and adapt a "Pass Then Forget" attitude toward it. I am not against adding a course in critical thinking,but don't think it's the cure all some people here think.
And, of course, critical thinking can be badly taught, like any subject can.
 
I am so many people here are predicitng a fascist takeover in the US, but laugh when I state that would result in Domestic violence like we have not seen since the Civil War.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I don't need to read Cohen's book to understand T**** at least a little bit.
Click to expand...

No, but it would certainly help a lot to understand the relationship between Cohen and Trump. And on this particular subject, which is exactly that relationship, it's rather relevant.


He's a raging malignant narcissist, so nobody...NOBODY! ever gets close to being as important as he is to himself. You would think that his wife would be the closest confidant he has in this world. And yet he has cheated on all of them with careless abandon, and that involves hiding his thoughts from them. His closest family are just arm-candy, to be changed when they age. Even his own children are a bunch of careless chancers still vying for his attention.
Click to expand...

Well, you've stated the glaringly obvious which no one is debating.

Cohen may have been a close acquaintance for 10 years, certainly, closer than most other people in Donny's circle. But whatever he says about his relationship with Donny, he was not really his confidant, even as much as a wife might be. Donny told him only as much as he might tell any personal lawyer, which is simply what he wanted done, be it paying off a casual hooker or arranging to bribe a judge to get him off yet another law suit. He would have given reasons not as one would to a confidant but to a tradesman charged with a duty to perform. Failure to perform (getting caught or snitching counts here) leads to banishment from Donny's close circle.
Click to expand...

Well, now you're telling us again what the relationship between them really was without having read Cohen's book. Because you know the real truth, right? You don't see the problem with that? But once again, you've conflated "friend" with "confidant". When someone confides in someone, it doesn't have to be someone's deepest personal secrets like a couple of teenage girls at a sleep over. It can be anything that person does not want known by others including business matters or personal matters like having them lie to your wife about paying off a porn star you slept with.

The only true confidant for Donny is his own ego, that is all. Everyone else...everyone else...is a useful gofer or an acquaintance of some sort, or they are simply not worth his imperial consideration. Cohen went from the former to the latter, that is all.
Click to expand...

Are you vying for Capt. Obvious' job? But you're still not getting the difference between a 'friend' and a 'confidant'. One can be both, but it is not a requirement. Cohen was only the latter. Trump has no 'friends'.
 
dudalb said:
MGM is not a major player in entertainment anymore..it sold off most of it assets a long time ago...but Bezos purchase is a sign he wants to move into the entertaiment business.
Click to expand...

Probably, but I’m also fairly sure if there’s an opportunity for Bezos to bury Trump he’s take it.
 
eerok said:
The election crap has been going on for years. Trump had planned a Stop the Steal thing in 2016, when he expected to lose. Even after he won he falsely called shenanigans because Hillary beat him on the popular vote. All these sorts of lies are cultivated over time.

When not properly established, their scams end up like the Hunter Biden fiasco, which was a flop overall.

ETA: Anyway, my post was about generating hate toward an opponent, not the general gullibility of Trumpanzees. Some people still hate Hillary, though there's no good reason to do so apart from baseless GOP smears and idiotic CTs.
Click to expand...

 
Stacyhs said:
No, but it would certainly help a lot to understand the relationship between Cohen and Trump. And on this particular subject, which is exactly that relationship, it's rather relevant.
Click to expand...
I haven't read all of Mein Kampf either, but I sorta got the drift from other sources.
Well, now you're telling us again what the relationship between them really was without having read Cohen's book. Because you know the real truth, right? You don't see the problem with that? But once again, you've conflated "friend" with "confidant". When someone confides in someone, it doesn't have to be someone's deepest personal secrets like a couple of teenage girls at a sleep over. It can be anything that person does not want known by others including business matters or personal matters like having them lie to your wife about paying off a porn star you slept with.



Are you vying for Capt. Obvious' job? But you're still not getting the difference between a 'friend' and a 'confidant'. One can be both, but it is not a requirement. Cohen was only the latter. Trump has no 'friends'.
Click to expand...
I never used the word "friend" because I never meant "friend". Seems we are both trying to be "obvious" there.

Cohen's relationship with Donny was the same as The Keeper of The Royal Stool was with Henry VIII. It was close, intimate and essential to the king and involving a singular view of his inner workings and much groveling. But it was certainly not one of confidence or friendship.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Because I was pretty sure I was reporting what other people said:

Crooks and Liars: Uh oh, with the purchase of MGM by Amazon, Jeff Bezos now owns all the racist words Donald Trump allegedly said during tapings of "The Apprentice."
Click to expand...

Quote:
Former Apprentice Staffer, Noel Casler tweeted: “Trump used the ‘n-word’ to describe contestants on the Apprentice not once or twice, it’s literally how he refers to black people all the time. He especially liked to do it in front of minority crew members.”
Click to expand...

Omarosa concurs
Click to expand...

We'll see if the tape ever comes out. Yet none of those minority crew members have come forward even anonymously and claimed they heard Trump use the N-word. You'd think during his first run in 2015-16, at least one or two would have. But, nope.

Omarosa claims to have heard the tape, not to have heard Trump say it herself. As I said earlier, she is not very credible and she was hawking her book. If "it’s literally how he refers to black people all the time," then why aren't there several other, credible people reporting this "all the time" use? There simply aren't. There are Omarosa and Tom Arnold who, as I said earlier, both had financial interests in stirring up interest with her book and his TV show. Mary T is the only credible person and she said she heard him use it years ago within the family. Who else? Noel Casler? He's pretty much only known for going on podcasts and talking about Trump. So I ask again: in this world where something like this would be big news, where are all the people who worked closely with Trump who have turned against him saying he used the N-word which he "literally uses all the time"? I'd love for it to be true. I'd love for a tape showing him doing so to be made public. But the evidence so far just doesn't back it up. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if it ever comes out. Like I said, I'm not saying he's NEVER used it, but I just don't think it's a word he uses often.
 
Norman Alexander said:
I haven't read all of Mein Kampf either, but I sorta got the drift from other sources.
Click to expand...

"Sorta getting the drift" is still arguing from a point of ignorance. You cannot discuss their relationship when you have not read the book. It's as simple as that but you just can't or won't admit it. You'd rather die on Mount I Can't Admit I'm Wrong.

I never used the word "friend" because I never meant "friend".
Click to expand...

Yes, you did:

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
Simple. Orders. "Make her an offer she can't refuse."

Don't forget that Donny has no friends, he just has people who do stuff for him. Nobody is really his confidant. They are just slightly closer acquaintances until such time as Donny no longer needs them for whatever they do. Ask his previous wives.
Click to expand...
Stacyhs said:
You're conflating 'friend' with 'confidant'. I never said Trump was Cohen's 'friend'; I said Cohen was his confidant. A 'friend' assumes loyalty which Trump does not know the meaning of. Sorry, Norman, but you're arguing from a point of ignorance as you haven't read Cohen's book. You don't know what was involved. Instead of trying to defend the hill you've taken a stand on, try reading Disloyal and then maybe you can make a better argument.
Click to expand...

Norman Alexander said:
Seems we are both trying to be "obvious" there. Cohen's relationship with Donny was the same as The Keeper of The Royal Stool was with Henry VIII. It was close, intimate and essential to the king and involving a singular view of his inner workings and much groveling. But it was certainly not one of confidence or friendship.
Click to expand...

"It was close, intimate and essential to the king and involving a singular view of his inner workings"

By Jove, I think you've got it! Which is why Trump would have been more relaxed around Cohen and would have been more likely to have used the N-word if that had been part of his normal vocabulary.

"But it was certainly not one of confidence or friendship."

I never said it was one of friendship. You are the one who repeatedly keeps making that mistake. I said you were conflating confidant with friend. I've explained the difference several times now but you don't seem to comprehend. Trump took Cohen into his confidence on many matters both personal and business, not as a friend, but as his personal lawyer. I don't know how I can make that any more clear.

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom