Venom
Philosopher
Yes we know you want to cover all of your bases just in case somebody believes that.
The Rise of Hitler and The Age of Trump: A Comparison
- Thread starter Stacyhs
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Yes we know you want to cover all of your bases just in case somebody believes that.
Belz...
Fiend God
Except that we have been in those eras before. Remember the 30s? Remember what that led to? Sure, the world was a better place after the war but it took a while and a lot of deaths to get there. And you can't deny that climate change will have a huge negative impact on us, the ramifications of which we can't really calculate at this time.
Do you seriously think that I'm trying to be edgy, here? Me?
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
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Well, certainly the people who support that movement -- like the 74 million or so who voted for Trump -- wouldn't call themselves fascists. They see themselves as patriots, the only true Americans.
BobTheCoward
Banned
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It seems like fascism is adherence to a fascist ideology rather than a set of policies. The fascist trump supporters have no problem labeling themselves fascist.
MrFliop
Thinker
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No! If Trump’s presidency were anything like the “rise of Nazism”, then the constitution, democracy etc. all that would’ve been subverted during the first weeks of Trump’s term in early 2017, and the US would’ve been a one party dictatorship. So, no I don’t see any similarities at all.
Venom
Philosopher
Special pleading. As the article in the OP compares an event at the end of Trump's term with one years before Hitler was chancellor, the author was not trying to say Trump himself was Hitler. But he and his base have possibly laid the groundwork for an authoritarian if not fascist political future in this country.
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
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Check the history of the rise of Hitler, Putin Erdogan and others - it doesn't happen overnight.
"It's not a problem until it passes the point of no return and becomes a problem that it is impossible to fix" is an all too common tactic.
Again we're only allowed two states. "Won't happen" and "Can't be stopped."
Again we're only allowed two states. "Won't happen" and "Can't be stopped."
MrFliop
Thinker
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Yes, I am aware of how those leaders “maintained” power. But, the rise of fascistic dictatorships, or any dictatorship for that matter, from democracies usually involves the restructuring and consolidation of power over time while still maintaining a facade of democracy. That’s not what Trump has done while he was in office. If his ultimate goal was to gain more power, why didn’t he do anything to change the foundations of government in his 4 years? Why was he being so patient?
Belz...
Fiend God
Your argument is essentially "it wasn't identical, so it's not similar".
Hopefully you can see the problem with that.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
I'm sure it would if they didn't have DINOs Manchin and Sinema as road blocks to reforming the filibuster.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
That is what worries me... its why I care about what happens in America even thought I don't live there.
MrFliop
Thinker
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Except they aren’t similar AT ALL! He hasn’t done anything to FOUNDATIONALLY change the Federal Government that would expand HIS power, the office of the Presidency. That’s the whole point of Fascist Dictatorships! unlimited power to the HEAD of state!
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dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
Please.The last thing we need is for the Dems to become a Bizarro version of the GOP with a "We don't need no stinking moderates or centrist" hard liners controlling the party.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
In Nazi Germany one reason Hitler got power was that many on the left actually sided with the Nazis to bring down the Social Democrats because, in full knowledge that the Nazis would take over, they though the Nazis in power would result in the "radicization of the masses" and would only last a few months.
I am afraid some on the hard line left have a similiar opinion, even if they will not say so in public.
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Someone on Twitter called Manchin an "Alt-Centrist" the other day I needed to lay down for that one.
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
My nightmare is that the left imitates the right and is taken over by it's authoratrain wing. And anybody who thinks the US left does not have an Authoratrian wing is living in a fantasy world, protected by huge ideological blinders. 'No enemies to the left' might be just as destructive as "no enemies to the right".
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
Indeed.
Hitler took 14 years to rise to power - it was another five years before Kristallnacht, and another three years before the Holocaust truly began.
Erdogan took nine years to rise from his first political position as Mayor of Istanbul to become Prime Minister of Turkey, a position which he held for eleven years, at which point he was elected Presdent. He has been Presdient ever sice... eight years.
Putin rose fom 17 years as a KGB intelligence officer to the Prime Ministership in nine years, and in that same year, President Boris Yeltsin stood down and made Putin acting President. Putin has remained in power as either President or Prime Minister ever since... the last 22 years
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
And what is gong on in the GOP just convinces me more that term limits for congress are vital for the survival of democracy. If People knew, going to congress, they would only be there faor a few terms, and could not make a 20 year career out of it, they might be more willing not to be obssesed with relection to the exclusion of all else.