Being a racist while having a soft skull

[Dr. Keith]

I'd rather like some support for this assertion. I haven't seen more than a very few Trump supporters on this site at all, let a lone "a number of". I mean, sure technically "a number of" might be one, because one is a number (the loneliest number). But the implied " a number of" suggests several, not one.

Beyond that, I don't believe I've seen anyone making any of the claims that you've ascribed to "a number of" people. I'll acknowledge an upfront caveat, in that there are a lot of threads I never read, and there are a small handful of people that I have on ignore and who could have said such things and I wouldn't have seen them.

Either way, you're asserting that multiple members of ISF have expressed that such actions are ACCEPTABLE actions. I could envision people expressing that such actions are DEFENSIBLE in very specific circumstances, but not that they're ACCEPTABLE as a broad approach. And your assertions above imply the latter. I think this merits some supporting evidence.

Even if the number is only two, I'm sure both of them appreciate your defense of their unacceptable actions.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Absolute nonsense. It is impossible to honestly believe that it is not especially worthy of condemnation unless trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power reflecting the will of the people through free and fair elections is not especially wrong compared to *checks notes* not wanting black people to be murdered and the public be fine with it.

How does it compare with blocking the exits to a police department that has people inside of it and then setting it on fire as an act of "protest"?

 

[Thermal]

Shades of "the democrats are the REAL racists".

He literally said a black man would have to be superhuman to not be trembling in front of fat or ancient white men. It's so patronizing to black people, I can't believe you guys don't see this.

 

[Emily's Cat]

All violence is worthy of condemnation regardless of if it is political or not. However, when it comes to political violence, spray-painting federal buildings, smashing statues, throwing objects at armoured police officers, and burning police cars, is still on a far lower level to storming the seat of Government with the declared intention to at least terrorise elected representatives, if not worse.

I would put the BLM protests that got violent at a similar level to the White Pride and Confederate statue protests that got violent back in 2017. The Jan 6th Insurrection was a new level of crazy.

I dunno. If we look at the actual outcomes of the events, I'm not so sure it's as clear as you seem to claim.

The BLM riots actually injured and killed several people, and put multiple police personnel in the hospital, as well as destroying the livelihoods of a lot of people and causing large amounts of property damage. The January 6th riot cause a fairly small amount of property damage and resulted in one police person being pepper sprayed, four protesters dying (several of natural causes), and some congresscritters being frightened.

At the end of the day, I'm not seeing that there's a good argument for saying that "We want to scare people" is materially worse than "We want to kill/injure/set-on-fire people".

I certainly don't support the actions taken on January 6th, but I also don't support the actions taken through the majority of 2020 either. In my eyes, allowing one type of (arguably more impactful) violence as acceptable while considering the other an unforgiveable transgression extensible to people who weren't even there is a bit skewed.

 

[tyr_13]

How does it compare with blocking the exits to a police department that has people inside of it and then setting it on fire as an act of "protest"?

Obviously still worse. Far worse. Unless doing so somehow could have had members of Congress killed for not overturning the will of the people.

Insurrection just isn't even in the same league as standard, actual, terrorism. It was an attack on our very democracy. No some policy, or outcome, the very structure of our country, which can only lead to massive loss of life. The lie will still be used to justify great violence, and if it had worked it would have been worse.

Again, this isn't a close call. This isn't a gray area. There is no 'bothsideism' equivalency to be made. And that's even BEFORE considering how much of the violence from last year's protests were done by the right and the police.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Are such dynamic responses never justified?

Only as a response to a credible and imminent threat of violence.

Calling someone hurtful names doesn't meet that standard, and violence in response to opinions - no matter how abhorrent those opinion are - is not acceptable imo.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I’d say the laws in most countries shows that we know it isn’t true, some speech is indeed harmful and we do legislate against it, yet for some reason many people have a view that speech is not an action.

(And if it helps save some folk some time - I know the knee jerk reactions to my comments.)

Speech can be emotionally harmful, but it is not injurious. Responding to emotionally harmful speech with physical violence is not acceptable in any of the countries that legislate against hate speech, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[Belz...]

He literally said a black man would have to be superhuman to not be trembling in front of fat or ancient white men. It's so patronizing to black people, I can't believe you guys don't see this.

But that's what I'm talking about: the right-wing and racists always assume that everything is equal for blacks and whites, and that any attempt to address racism is either condescending to black people or is preventing them from enjoying their freedoms. And that's the REAL racism!

 

[Emily's Cat]

As always I see the same people are here to be super-dooper concerned that the racist is dead that either aren't concerned or writing apologetic fan fiction about it when racists are the ones doing the killing.

This is an absurd strawman.

Nobody is concerned that the racist is dead. I believe several of us are concerned that the puncher is being lauded for having killed an old man who said mean things and hurt the puncher's feelings.

 

[Belz...]

Nobody is concerned that the racist is dead.

I think several were concerned enough to call it cold, calculated, and murder.

 

[Emily's Cat]

I hope you don't really mean that and if you do I'm pleased that things seem to be moving away from outdated attitudes like that.

I'm not really sure that "physically attack people who hurt your feelings" as progress here.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

He literally said a black man would have to be superhuman to not be trembling in front of fat or ancient white men. It's so patronizing to black people, I can't believe you guys don't see this.

Did I? I must have had a seizure because I have no recollection of such a claim. I humbly suggested that black people are human beings that experience normal human emotions to stressful situations, rather than being hyper-cool operators.

I doubt Pujols was afraid of eggshell skull. He was probably pretty upset by being racially abused by some ******* customer. Most people would be angry or at least annoyed by being abused while working their job. Service workers put up with a lot of unwarranted hostility from customers, but outright racist attacks is above and beyond.

Black people are capable of more emotional response between cowardice and cool calculation. Your absurd suggestions that black people respond to adversity with calculating indifference is baffling.

Most people find it frustrating and even enraging to be belittled by strangers for no good reason. Sometimes they even get mad about it and do things they might later regret.

 

[Myriad]

I think several were concerned enough to call it cold, calculated, and murder.

I didn't call it cold or calculated, but I did call it murder. If someone violently assaults someone, and kills them, that's a perfectly adequate English word to describe it. I am not a judge or a lawyer, and this is not a courtroom.

(Things Columbo never said, example 22: "It couldn't have been suicide, because the gun was in his right hand and he was left-handed. No sir, this was murder. Unless it was actually statutory aggravated manslaughter of the third kind with a caramel swirl, of course.")

 

[Belz...]

I didn't call it cold or calculated, but I did call it murder. If someone violently assaults someone, and kills them, that's a perfectly adequate English word to describe it.

He probably didn't intend to kill him. People punch each other (illegally) for a variety of reasons in a variety of contexts and they rarely kill each other doing so. The circumstances of this one resulted in a death, but I figure manslaughter is a better description.

 

[Belz...]

Did I? I must have had a seizure because I have no recollection of such a claim. I humbly suggested that black people are human beings that experience normal human emotions to stressful situations, rather than being hyper-cool operators that respond danger by "toying" with a lynch mob.

Notice that the word "literally" has been used once again to mean "not literally".

 

[Emily's Cat]

Where did that happen?

...

Sounds like he was standing his ground. No crime detected, free this man.

Glib comments about Mouthy McSoftskull taking a dirt nap aside, our puncher does seem to be in a bit of legal trouble. Hopefully the racial slurs will be a mitigating factor.

This example is obviously an overreaction by our Dunkin employee, and he likely did not intend to kill this piece of ****, but I still imagine there's a bit of catharsis in seeing a racist, bullying customer get put into the forever box for running his bigoted mouth with the wrong one.

Gonna file this one under "guilty pleasure". I know, intellectually, it's not a good thing to have happened, but that won't stop me from partially enjoying it. It's a shame our man will be looking at a serious felony charge.

I find it very funny that a racist literally got killed over a dispute involving what was likely less than $10 of cafe food. Imagine making it through 77 years of life and getting snuffed out because you absolutely could not resist the urge to be racist to some uppity black cashier. Unreal lack of survival instincts, truly impressive.

I'm not necessarily justifying the actions of the person that ended this man's whole existence, but I am pleased to see bad things happening to racists. It would have been better had he slipped on a banana peel or got hit by lightning because then there would be no downside to the death, but we have to take these things as they are, not as we want them to be.

The world would objectively be a better place if overt racists were afraid to out themselves like this. One punch at a time to a better tomorrow

Sometimes bad things happen to bad people and you just have to cherish the little gifts.

I'm touched you single me out on advocating violence, but that's being a bit stingy towards other members. There was a long running thread debating the merits of punching nazis.

I'm not celebrating the death of someone at the hands of another. I'm just celebrating someone's death.

A bit disproportional, sure, but evil happening upon evil people is sweet to me.

Yup. A good guy with a fist will stop a bad guy with a racial slur.

I thought wrong-think was a medical diagnosis.

Like when you crack your head on the floor and your brain is bleeding and swelling, causing unconsciousness and eventual death.

From a purely practical standpoint, I feel pretty confident that our dearly departed definitely intended to evoke a response, even a violent response, when he entered the lobby to racially abuse the staff. Looks like he got exactly what he wanted, and hard. Good for him, I hope he was satisfied.

I have hard time thinking of our dead racist as a victim. Seems pretty clear to me that he was a willing participant in a confrontation that any reasonable person would expect could easily become violent.

 

[Belz...]

...

None of that "lauds" the actions of the perpetrator. At worst (or best) they laud the death of the victim for being a racist. Most agree that there should be consequences for the attacker, with the exception of the first quote, who might have been made ironically due to the use of 'stand your ground'.

Being glad one racist is gone is not the same thing as lauding or encouraging the kind of behaviour that led to this, from either party.

 

[Emily's Cat]

No, I give them the benefit of the doubt that they could respond in a variety of ways. You don't.

What is superhuman about Arbery not being cowed by some fat rednecks Keystone copping around In pickups? Remember, as far as we know no guns were out till the end (Greg picked his up from the holster in the bed after shots fired, and I'm not entertaining the idiocy that Travis was driving and doing U-turns with a minimum 37" Remy 870 in his lap).

What is superhuman about Pujols not being cowed by a 77 yr old man? Do you tremble in fear over geriatrics complaining about donut shop service?

Go ahead, please describe how a black man would have to be superhuman to be collected in both cases. Try not to let your contempt for the idea of a black man having some balls be too obvious

I disagree with your framing with respect to Arbery. Regardless of the situation, being chased down by someone in an automobile is going to make pretty much any rational person freaked the f--- out. I can't imagine a case where a non-sociopath of any age, sex, or race would be anything other than cowed by a motor vehicle running them down.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Even if the number is only two, I'm sure both of them appreciate your defense of their unacceptable actions.

What?

 

[Darat]

...

Any reason you didn’t provide a link to the actual posts?