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Man shot, killed by off-duty Dallas police officer who walked into wrong apartment p3

Castle Doctrine - Occupied

There is also the issue that I have brought up before of the castle law only applying to an “occupied” habitation. That word is from very old law that differentiated between an “occupied” building and things like action done “in the night”. It basically made things a more serious crime in certain circumstances. A criminal action at night is more sever than one during the day. Or someone temporarily loitering on your property during the days is no problem, but if it happens at night it is a problem.

The term “occupied” in those old laws was used two ways. Sometimes for a building that had a person in that building at the time and sometimes for a building that is generally occupied. A house that a family lives in compared to an abandoned house or a tool shack in the back yard. The primary concern was that an intruder into an occupied house could pose a threat to persons rather just property. But in some cases the word meant whether there was actually a threat to persons at the time—the building was actually occupied by a person at the time of the crime and not just potentially occupied.

Because the wording of castle doctrine laws was largely just copied from old laws, nobody knows what “occupied” means in the context of those laws. It may mean that you can presume deadly force if you are in you own house and someone comes in, but if someone is in your house you can’t go in and presume deadly force. That makes sense. If you are outside and they are going inside, you are not presented with an unknown action where a presumption of deadly force would apply.

I expect the appellant court will skirt around these complicated issues.
 
Catsmate:

DevilsAdvocate might help you consider how unsophisticated your views on crime are.
 
No I wouldn't have noticed because my brain would protect me from anything that stupid.
Might want to consider working on or seeking help for that. Your cognitive filters won't protect your body from other peoples' stupidity - as Mr. Jean discovered.
 
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Reality check is that the ship has almost certainly sailed for Guyger and Chauvin. Cops get preferential treatment in the courtroom, but these people aren't cops anymore, they're convicted criminals.

Criminals appeals do not have a great track record for success. Their lawyers are going through the motions as is their duty to their clients, but there's really no reason to suspect that they will be successful.
 
Appeals in general just aren't all the successful. For all its faults our legal justice system usually (I said usually) makes the decision it meant to make (note I didn't say the right decision, but the decision it meant to make) the first time.

Now I still stand behind my earlier statement(s) that appeals for the sake of appeals when no new information that couldn't have been brought up in the original trial are stupid.
 
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Appeals in general just aren't all the successful. For all its faults our legal justice system usually (I said usually) makes the decision it meant to make (note I didn't say the right decision, but the decision it meant to make) the first time.

Now I still stand behind my earlier statement(s) that appeals for the sake of appeals when no new information that couldn't have been brought up in the original trial are stupid.

It's stupid, but probably the prudent course of action for the lawyer. It's not unusual for a lawyer to exhaust all recourse for their clients even if everyone involved knows it's hopeless.

It's not really noteworthy that Guyger is appealing. I hope the news isn't treating this as something particularly newsworthy, but I haven't been following that closely since the conviction.

Guyger's goose is cooked, barring a minor miracle.
 
That really would only matter if this was being tried as premeditated murder.
It is an episode that is driven by paranoia and fear in a country of gun nuts, where everyone might be one, a young woman after a long day. It could not happen anywhere else, this woman could be anyone's daughter.
 
It is an episode that is driven by paranoia and fear in a country of gun nuts, where everyone might be one, a young woman after a long day. It could not happen anywhere else, this woman could be anyone's daughter.

"I was scared he could have been a gun nut, so in a panic I used my gun to shoot him but I don't think that's murder because I'm so stupid I didn't know which apartment I was in."

That's some battle daze crap. I love how a white person with a gun shoots an unarmed black person illegally and the excuse is "The white person was justified because gun nuts are so common."

That's like me getting caught banging the babysitter and telling my wife it's because I was so scared she was cheating on me.
 
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For the umpteenth time:

She was not some timid woman who didn't know what else to do when confronted with an unexpected person.

SHE WAS A TRAINED LEO WHO CONFRONTS POTENTIALLY VIOLENT STRANGERS DAILY AND DOES NOT ******* GUN THEM DOWN.

She knew exactly how to handle a potentially dangerous criminal without killing them. Christ, she did it for a living. How do you guys gloss over that?

She knew what to do. She was trained with options and protocols. She chose to kill. Murder.
 
It is an episode that is driven by paranoia and fear in a country of gun nuts, where everyone might be one, a young woman after a long day. It could not happen anywhere else, this woman could be anyone's daughter.

If that were true then literally anyone could use that as an excuse.

She broke the law. She got convicted by a jury of her peers in a state that gave her the highest chance at getting off.

The fact is she had the intention of killing Botham. There was no mistaking that in any way. She admitted to it, her lawyer admitted to it. She got 10 years, and is eligible for parole in 2024. She should shut the **** up and be happy with what she got, because if the roles were reversed Botham would be in prison for the rest of his life. If not in line for a needle due to killing a cop.

**** her, if she got double her 10 years it still wouldn't be enough.
 
It is an episode that is driven by paranoia and fear in a country of gun nuts, where everyone might be one, a young woman after a long day. It could not happen anywhere else, this woman could be anyone's daughter.

Yea she was totally thirsty for her married partner and had to get some Vitamin D in her. Could happen to anyone cheating with a married man.
 
For the umpteenth time:

She was not some timid woman who didn't know what else to do when confronted with an unexpected person.

SHE WAS A TRAINED LEO WHO CONFRONTS POTENTIALLY VIOLENT STRANGERS DAILY AND DOES NOT ******* GUN THEM DOWN.

Well not all of them at least, she had been involved in shootings before. But no cop ever would call for back up when they can cowboy up, not in texas.
 
It is an episode that is driven by paranoia and fear in a country of gun nuts, where everyone might be one, a young woman after a long day. It could not happen anywhere else, this woman could be anyone's daughter.

And Botham Jean was someone's son. Eating ice cream on his couch in the safety of his own home.

One thing this appeal has done is completely trash the olive branch that some of the Jean family had extended to Guyger. They have been on the local news and they are not at all happy about this appeal, routine or not.
 
It will probably get tossed. But this is a weird case. I expect the court will give this appeal more consideration than most similar types of appeals. The appeal is well written. This is a different lawyer who specializes in appellant law.

The claim is legal insufficiency. That basically means that the prosecution didn't prove the case. That basically means that even if all the facts that the prosecution presented are accepted as true, the defendant would still not be guilty of a crime. That gets a bit complicated here because there are defenses raised, where in some cases (such as self-defense) the defense has the burden of proof.

They are basically just rehashing the case. They say she clearly made a mistake of fact and believed she was facing an intruder in her own home. If we accept the mistake of fact, we must consider the case of that perspective. If she was facing an intruder in her own home this was a case of self defense. I'll address those in separate posts.

You can listen to the hearing of the appeal here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-X_37kTSxk

It doesn't seem like the 3 appellate judges thought much of the Guyger's attorney's arguments. They spend much of the time discussing why the 'mistake of fact' issue.
 

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