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The behaviour of US police officers

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Craig4 said:
If it weren't for the hammer that girl would have had her throat slit.
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Neither you nor I can make that claim since what happened happened so nothing else could have happened (until we invent time travel).

Your view is that the only thing in the entire arsenal of policing that could have prevented a throat slitting is firing 4 shots, I don’t agree with that assessment.
 
Darat said:
But we are told most (around 75%) never use their guns throughout their entire police career! So the concern about an “armed citizenry” seems rather over blown.
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Most police work is pretty mundane. Cops can go long stretches of time without even arresting anybody. Police work isn't even among the top 10 most dangerous jobs. But I'd hate to see cops respond to the scene of an active shooter with pepper spray.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
I see.

An interesting note about the taser. Originally there was much hope that this new wonder weapon would reduce police shootings. Bridge the gap between less effective nonlethal weapons and outright lethal force and provide an option that might keep suspects from getting shot dead.

All reporting shows that they don't do anything to reduce the use of lethal force. They are popular non-lethal weapons, and reports of widespread abuse of these weapons as pain-compliance tools are very common. Cops love them because it's much easier than beating up a suspect or pepperspraying them, excruciating pain is simply one button away.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/theres-no-evidence-tasers-reduce-police-use-of-firearms-new-study-shows.html

For US cops, the firearm remains the primary tool of law enforcement. Nonlethal weapons like tasers are simply auxiliary tools reserved for special situations, like repeatedly shocking an unarmed person who isn't appropriately compliant.
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When we allow the sadists to write the rules on how the sadists are allowed to behave, what else could we possibly expect?
 
Bob001 said:
Did you note that the attack was in progress when the police arrived?
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Bad wording, I was meaning in the same space of time as the actual police action.

But like I’ve said - I am not arguing that the police officer should have done anything different….
 
Bob001 said:
What a dumb response. You may not have heard the first 911 call. The caller reported that somebody was trying to stab people and begged for immediate help. The video shows the girl actively trying to stab two other girls with police on the scene. What do you think she would have done differently if the cops didn't have guns?
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It truly is a shame that she managed to kill so many people before she was killed herself.
 
The potential stabbing victim had been shoved off balance against the hood of a car, only managing to get off a wild kick as a desperate defensive measure.

The knife was reeled back and starting to move forward.

And no, don't try to distort "questioning whether a potentially deadly knife attack was a good idea" with "questioning whether reaching for a seat belt/being uncomfortable with angry commands to exit a vehicle at a routine traffic stop was a good idea" as similar and therefor heartless victim-blaming.
 
Delphic Oracle said:
The potential stabbing victim had been shoved off balance against the hood of a car, only managing to get off a wild kick as a desperate defensive measure.

The knife was reeled back and starting to move forward.

And no, don't try to distort "questioning whether a potentially deadly knife attack was a good idea" with "questioning whether reaching for a seat belt/being uncomfortable with angry commands to exit a vehicle at a routine traffic stop was a good idea" as similar and therefor heartless victim-blaming.
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Again we are using that incident to talk about police actions in general and I’ve used it as an example of the law of hammers that seem to be ingrained in Americans in regards to policing. I’ve not read anyone saying the police officer should be prosecuted for their actions or saying the criminal was innocent.

It is quite clear that many of the Americans in this thread just can’t get their heads around the idea that police have to face such incidents in the UK without having a firearm, that ways have to found to still protect the innocent without having the fallback of a gun.
 
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Bob001 said:
Okay, how many chances to kill should the cops have given her?
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None, if possible. The point has never been that she shouldn't have been shot. The point has been that cops armed with guns will tend to see the gun as their primary- or only - option.
 
Really odd to choose a nail as an illustration of how too many hammers get used...

I think it actually makes the "too many hammers" argument look farcical.

And I'm on board with that argument 99 times out of 100.
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
I get that "had no other choice" has been used overbroadly.

But there are situations where it seems to be a credible read of the situation.

Incredulity over this undermines the bigger argument and makes us look like the reactionaries we often lampoon for shoehorning every edge case onto whatever social issue the topic is about.
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I'm not quite sure what you are referring to but I am only using the teen death as one example. Other examples would be a mentally ill person with a knife who is still quite a distance from the cop who shot. There are quite a few of those examples where cops shot to kill when the person with the knife was not close to anyone.

I am not trying to shoehorn anything into anything.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
You would have to ask her..

How long should the officer wait to see what happens next?

Maybe it will be just a thigh jab..
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Thanks. You know we can't ask her right? That's a pretty filthy joke.

The police took 8 minutes to get there and no one had died in those 8 minutes. Did the police have enough info to rule out that she (the girl with the knife) wasn't a member of the household trying to run off home invaders? Note that that none of the bystanders said anything even remotely like "thank for killing her, she really needed it". The reaction of the people there suggest they thought killing her was completely unnecessary.

The cops themselves weren't in imminent danger and the crowd around didn't appear fearful for their lives. I haven't heard the 911 call but still, yeah, I think they could have waited.
 
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Craig4 said:
If it weren't for the hammer that girl would have had her throat slit.
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If the girl with the knife had been standing behind her victim, actually holding the knife to the girl's throat while pulling her head back to expose her throat by pulling her hair ... think what might have happened had the cop not killed the girl with the knife. :rolleyes:
 
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