The behaviour of US police officers

[Delphic Oracle]

I get that "had no other choice" has been used overbroadly.

But there are situations where it seems to be a credible read of the situation.

Incredulity over this undermines the bigger argument and makes us look like the reactionaries we often lampoon for shoehorning every edge case onto whatever social issue the topic is about.

 

[Nessie]

.... If a cop cannot bring himself to risk subduing a teenage girl with a knife, where only they are in danger, without shooting her then I think they should find another line of work.

It is not right to assess the risk based on factors such as sex and age. Determination to use the knife in an attack is far more important. Hence, a teenage girl could be very high risk.

 

[lobosrul5]

It is not right to assess the risk based on factors such as sex and age. Determination to use the knife in an attack is far more important. Hence, a teenage girl could be very high risk.

Hmm, I disagree in part. The strength and size of an assailant with a knife will come into play, theres no doubt.

I have actually fended off a knife attack in my life, the reason I was able to fend them off with only minor injury is I was bigger and stronger. I blocked an overhand thrust (right terminology?) with my forearm and grabbed their arm.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Well, there's the language barrier...

Dave

So you'll be excluding Geordies then?

 

[Babbylonian]

Okay, in your country, if police came upon someone actively swinging a knife at someone else, what would they have done that would not have resulted in a victim getting stabbed? Pepper spray, baton, taser or just a tackle might have been deployed after the attack, but what would have prevented it?

What a dumb ******* question. What if the police response had taken an extra 5 minutes? How would the crime have been prevented then? Maybe a stabbing wouldn't have even been attempted if there weren't any guns present. Or, the officer could have missed their target and killed the victim with their magical firearm; would you still be so glad for armed cops then?

Besides, the answer to your question has been given: An officer would do what they could with the tools they have.

Unless you have some evidence that more people are being murdered in countries where police don't routinely carry guns, your one-situation hypothetical is a pointless game.

 

[Nessie]

Hmm, I disagree in part. The strength and size of an assailant with a knife will come into play, theres no doubt.

I have actually fended off a knife attack in my life, the reason I was able to fend them off with only minor injury is I was bigger and stronger. I blocked an overhand thrust (right terminology?) with my forearm and grabbed their arm.

IME, speed and ferocity beat size and strength when it comes to a knife or similar weapon fight. I suspect you were quicker, not stronger than your assailant, since you blocked and got hold of them.

 

[Roboramma]

A part of this whole conversation we're having about our out of control policing that is being missed is the criminalization of everything. We've given the cops all the tools they need to hassle people by making everything illegal.

These localities need to start asking "are we willing to arrest people for this" when passing laws. If the answer is no, they should rethink what they are doing.

This city requires, by law, a license to ride a bike. Cops hassling black people for not having their bike license is a very predictable consequence of this.

I would just like to emphasize this point. Well said.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

What is the use of a warning shot? I just don't grasp the doctrine behind it.

Possibly in a situation where it is otherwise impossible to communicate with the person being confronted, it might indicate possession of and willingness to use the firearm. But if they can see you and see that you have a weapon, and hear you say that you'll fire--if they don't believe you'd shoot them, shooting at nothing really doesn't prove anything either.

In the situation with the dead teen, the scene was chaotic, the cop was yelling, no one was paying attention. I think a warning shot would have gotten people's attention and stopped them, like waking someone up.

Made me think, too bad in situations where the cops can't get anyone's attention that they don't have an air horn or similar device.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Again, that is very interesting and informative but doesn't answer my specific question.

Of course not.

You are not going to find the exact match you are looking for. You are only looking for confirmation bias affirmative evidence. Consider your bias, try harder to set it aside and look at the evidence again.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Based on that theory, would a noisemaker device creating a similar sound serve the same purpose?

I think so, see my post above.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

....
All reporting shows that they don't do anything to reduce the use of lethal force. They are popular non-lethal weapons, and reports of widespread abuse of these weapons as pain-compliance tools are very common. Cops love them because it's much easier than beating up a suspect or pepperspraying them, excruciating pain is simply one button away.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/01/18/theres-no-evidence-tasers-reduce-police-use-of-firearms-new-study-shows.html

For US cops, the firearm remains the primary tool of law enforcement. Nonlethal weapons like tasers are simply auxiliary tools reserved for special situations, like repeatedly shocking an unarmed person who isn't appropriately compliant.

That study was limited to Chicago which has a high level of gun violence. We probably need some studies in other cities to confirm those results.

Are you claiming a taser would not have interrupted the girl with the knife's lunge?

 

[Craig4]

I like my view from a police system that has more than a hammer in its toolbox!

If it weren't for the hammer that girl would have had her throat slit.

 

[Craig4]

Why is that an inevitability?

Why isn't it your assumption? With faced with someone attacking another person with a knife what other assumption could you make?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Yes, the problem with those other options is that they involve the girl getting assaulted getting her throat slit.

Bull. The girl who died was not in any physical position to be able to slit the throat of the girl she was attacking. Once again the actual situation is being made out to be something it wasn't to support the desired narrative..

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm appalled at police going violent at the drop of a hat, or because their dick is too small, or because someone's skin color triggered them.

But I can also say if my mom/sister/daughter was the one about to be slashed, I would not be advocating "let's all calm down and see if unfolding developments reveal a greater understanding of the situation."

And if your mom/sister/daughter was the one killed you might at least be advocating for a non-lethal shot.

 

[Darat]

First, when you talk about the USA you're talking about something like 18,000 independent police departments and sheriffs' offices. There is no national or state or even regional policy. Second, almost anybody who wants a handgun in the U.S. can have one. Anyone any cop encounters might have a gun. Sending unarmed cops against an armed citizenry would not end well.

But we are told most (around 75%) never use their guns throughout their entire police career! So the concern about an “armed citizenry” seems rather over blown.

 

[Darat]

Okay, in your country, if police came upon someone actively swinging a knife at someone else, what would they have done that would not have resulted in a victim getting stabbed? Pepper spray, baton, taser or just a tackle might have been deployed after the attack, but what would have prevented it?

They could all have been done prior to the attack.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Okay, in your country, if police came upon someone actively swinging a knife at someone else, what would they have done that would not have resulted in a victim getting stabbed? Pepper spray, baton, taser or just a tackle might have been deployed after the attack, but what would have prevented it?

It's a safe bet pepper spray would have stopped the girl with the knife. How could she even see the other girl she was trying to stab? And if you've ever been pepper sprayed, it burns your throat and your eyes, you stop what you are doing and try to alleviate the pain.

But the officer who shot was not in a position he could have used pepper spray.

 

[Belz...]

You are not going to find the exact match you are looking for. You are only looking for confirmation bias affirmative evidence.

I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm asking another poster to provide evidence for their claim. What does bias have to do wth this? You seem to be throwing a random accusation out of frustration.

The claim was very specific, but so far the evidence does not support it. So it seems that my objection to your comment about shooting legs was correct.

Consider your bias, try harder to set it aside and look at the evidence again.

What evidence? Did you look at it yourself, and found support for your claim or Swoop's? Of course you didn't.

And what bias? I'm reporting the expertise of other people on the matter.

 

[Bob001]

What a dumb ******* question. What if the police response had taken an extra 5 minutes? How would the crime have been prevented then? Maybe a stabbing wouldn't have even been attempted if there weren't any guns present. Or, the officer could have missed their target and killed the victim with their magical firearm; would you still be so glad for armed cops then?
....

What a dumb response. You may not have heard the first 911 call. The caller reported that somebody was trying to stab people and begged for immediate help. The video shows the girl actively trying to stab two other girls with police on the scene. What do you think she would have done differently if the cops didn't have guns?