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The behaviour of US police officers

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The girl called the police for help after she was threatened by a woman.
Police arrived, saw she had a knife and shot her four times.

Video from someone at the scene later with police inside the cordon shouting at crowd watching "Blue Lives Matter"

I lost the link though, twitter updated and it went down the feed and now I can't find it again.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
The girl called the police for help after she was threatened by a woman.
Police arrived, saw she had a knife and shot her four times.

Video from someone at the scene later with police inside the cordon shouting at crowd watching "Blue Lives Matter"

I lost the link though, twitter updated and it went down the feed and now I can't find it again.
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Well, that's a different version. I'd like to see that video.

It's even worse though if they shot her because she had a knife.

Triple FUBAR!
 
By the way, I saw some update on the kids and bikes issue. Apparently there were a number of them and they were riding recklessly, so there probably was good reason for some action. But the bikes were not stolen, and apparently after being taken to the station most were let go, with their bikes.

Still seems a pretty poorly run operation, but some rationale to it.
 
The reports on the Columbus shooting are a bit contradictory, as to whether the teenager called for aid concerning other kids fighting, or whether she was being abused, but it appears she was the one who called them. Reports also seem ambiguous about whether she had a knife or "a knife was found next to the body." She was, as you can guess, black, and they shot her four times.

ETA here's a further update from The Daily Beast, which, if true, says that the kid was in a foster home, some adults were threatening her, and she grabbed a knife to protect herself, but had, so they say, dropped it before being shot. It does not sound good at all:

https://www.thedailybeast.com/colum...on-as-derek-chauvin-guilty-verdict-comes-down
 
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Post from the Chauvin murder thread, needed to be moved here.

bruto said:
Well, you never know with these vicious black girls. She might have been a deadly knife thrower. One shot won't do it. Two won't do it. Three won't do it. Four is a nice round number, a couple of extra left if she keeps moving or makes noise.
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It's a weird situation. The girl isn't coming at the cop with the knife, she's about to stab the girl next to her. It's hard to see when the action is going, even in slow motion (2nd half of the video). I think the cop could have shot the ground first. But I don't think you can call this one clearly murder by cop. I call it more, why don't these guys have better tools to deal with a situation like this.

And were 4 shots really necessary?
 
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Yes, it does look as if the initial report I read was inaccurate (or worse). It's going to take some time to sort it all out, but you're right, it does not look like a murder by cop here. I can see why the police were pretty quick to release the footage this time, too, given the volatile situation.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Exactly. And I've always been annoyed that you are supposed to ride your bike on a dangerous street when there is a sidewalk. Some idiot idea that it was better the bike rider is at risk than a pedestrian on the sidewalk?
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Because bikes on a sidewalk going 20-25 mph are quite dangerous to pedestrians?

Oh, I forget. This is the US. Bikes are considered toys. Carry on.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Post from the Chauvin murder thread, needed to be moved here.





It's a weird situation. The girl isn't coming at the cop with the knife, she's about to stab the girl next to her. It's hard to see when the action is going, even in slow motion (2nd half of the video). I think the cop could have shot the ground first. But I don't think you can call this one clearly murder by cop. I call it more, why don't these guys have better tools to deal with a situation like this.

And were 4 shots really necessary?
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Hey these are cops only 4 shots counts as serious restraint. 30-40 would be more normal.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Post from the Chauvin murder thread, needed to be moved here.





It's a weird situation. The girl isn't coming at the cop with the knife, she's about to stab the girl next to her. It's hard to see when the action is going, even in slow motion (2nd half of the video). I think the cop could have shot the ground first. But I don't think you can call this one clearly murder by cop. I call it more, why don't these guys have better tools to deal with a situation like this.

And were 4 shots really necessary?
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To my understanding it would be completely inappropriate to shoot at the ground--if lethal force is not called for, the firearm shouldn't be discharged at all.

Really there's no room for degrees in the use of the sidearm--either they should or should not use it, because you do not want police attempting to use their firearm for any other purpose.

In the absence of context, I think that shooting someone who is in the act of trying to stab someone else with a knife is probably a valid use of force. As more information becomes available that conclusion would obviously be subject to examination.
 
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gnome said:
To my understanding it would be completely inappropriate to shoot at the ground--if lethal force is not called for, the firearm shouldn't be discharged at all.

Really there's no room for degrees in the use of the sidearm--either they should or should not use it, because you do not want police attempting to use their firearm for any other purpose.

In the absence of context, I think that shooting someone who is in the act of trying to stab someone else with a knife is probably a valid use of force.
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I agree. The problem seems to be that there isn’t anything between “harsh words” and “lethal force” for many USA folk.
 
Cop fired for donating to Rittenhouse defense fund and including encouraging message to the young multi-murderer.

A Norfolk Police lieutenant has been fired after donating to a Kyle Rittenhouse support fund using his city email address, according to a press release on Tuesday. William Kelly reportedly made the donation last fall, and commented, “God bless. Thank you for your courage. Keep your head up. You’ve done nothing wrong...Every rank and file police officer supports you,”
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https://www.thedailybeast.com/virginia-cop-william-kelly-fired-after-donating-to-kyle-rittenhouses-defense-fund
 
Children CAN be a threat that requires a response of lethal force.

People armed with weapons that aren't gun CAN be a threat that requires a response of lethal force.

Women, very small and weak people, disabled people... all CAN be a threat that requires a response of lethal force.

"At the time the police chose to use lethal force, was the person in question reasonably presenting a viable threat that justified lethal force?" is the only question to be asked.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Exactly. And I've always been annoyed that you are supposed to ride your bike on a dangerous street when there is a sidewalk. Some idiot idea that it was better the bike rider is at risk than a pedestrian on the sidewalk?
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We have a lot of multi-use paths here. Basically extra wide sidewalks that are supposed to accommodate bot cyclists and pedestrians. I many cases I find them more dangerous than riding on the road. I've been hit more than once by cards that roll though the stop sign instead of stopping before the stop sign like they are supposed to. Car's almost never stop before the path. Pedestrians are also really unpredictable, walk in the center of the path and prone to weave in front of you as you try to pass them.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
This is more crap.

It's your bike the cops accuse you of stealing it. You don't throw your arms up and give up arguing.

You tell them to call your mom, call grandma, call anyone that can confirm what color/style the bike you own is.
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Black parents in the US frequently teach their kids to do just this to avoid being shot by police...
 
lomiller said:
We have a lot of multi-use paths here. Basically extra wide sidewalks that are supposed to accommodate bot cyclists and pedestrians. I many cases I find them more dangerous than riding on the road. I've been hit more than once by cards that roll though the stop sign instead of stopping before the stop sign like they are supposed to. Car's almost never stop before the path. Pedestrians are also really unpredictable, walk in the center of the path and prone to weave in front of you as you try to pass them.
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There's a cycle path near me a bit like that, that's shared with the pedestrian path in places. It's set back from a major road, and there's a series of side roads into residential areas that the cycle path crosses a few feet back from the side of the main road. As a result, cyclists have to pretty much stop dead at every side road and check traffic from in front, to the side, and behind, because cars turning into or out of the side roads have right of way. All it takes is one car forgetting to signal and you're on the deck, or worse. Staying on the road, which as far as I'm aware is perfectly legal despite the occasional counter-claim by drivers of white vans, is a hell of a lot safer even if you don't factor in the sections that are shared with pedestrians.

Dave
 
gnome said:
In the absence of context, I think that shooting someone who is in the act of trying to stab someone else with a knife is probably a valid use of force. As more information becomes available that conclusion would obviously be subject to examination.
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Yeah, this seems like the sort of situation in which giving the cop the benefit of the doubt is legitimate. Sure, context matters, but in this case they didn't have time to really evaluate that context. He shows up in the middle of a fight to see this person knock one person down, and then go after another person with a knife. Use of force seems pretty reasonable, it takes less than a second to stab someone, and then maybe you just end up with two dead people.

Barring some really bad new evidence coming to light, I think this one was legitimate.
 
Okay I see the bike path, I see the pedestrian path, I must have missed the path from "bike lanes" to "police murdering people in the street" this discussion took.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Okay I see the bike path, I see the pedestrian path, I must have missed the path from "bike lanes" to "police murdering people in the street" this discussion took.
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Because you have the causality backward, this thread is about police murdering people in the street, it has a digression about bike paths.
 
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