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The behaviour of US police officers

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The Don said:
IMO Afghanistan is an outlier. There is no combination of tactics which could lead to a stable Afghanistan because there seems to be little domestic desire for one.
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That isn't really true. The tribal leaders certainly desire don't like the terrorists who are exploiting them. Their decision to side with the drug lords is rational self interest along the lines of a prisoners dilemma game. More of their children die if they cooperate with western forces than if they cooperate with the terrorist drug lords.
 
lomiller said:
That isn't really true. The tribal leaders certainly desire don't like the terrorists who are exploiting them. Their decision to side with the drug lords is rational self interest along the lines of a prisoners dilemma game. More of their children die if they cooperate with western forces than if they cooperate with the terrorist drug lords.
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My very superficial knowledge of the history of Afghanistan post 1839, when the British got involved, drew my to my conclusion. Since that time, unless the populace is united against a common foe be that the British, Soviets or Coalition forces, then the tribal leaders engage in tribal warfare.

When has Afghanistan been stable ?

When has a power, internal or external, been able to convince the Afghan tribal leaders to unite behind them ?
 
Columbus PD went on helicopter joyride over mostly black neighborhood, spelling out "CPD" with its flight path.

The "joyride," as it was described on Twitter by Columbus City Council president pro tempore Elizabeth Brown, has drawn wide criticism on social media today, with Brown writing that she was "beyond frustrated" with the flight path in light of a bill she proposed last summer to decrease the size of the city's helicopter fleet by one. (The measure was eventually tabled after CPD argued the helicopters were essential.)

Council member Rob Dorans, who supported Brown's legislation to reduce the CPD helicopter fleet, also chimed in on Twitter, writing, "We were told over and over again how essential every second of airtime was. This joyride was just plain dumb and a waste of taxpayer dollars."
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https://amp.columbusalive.com/amp/7268766002
 
Kestrel said:
The long version of the bodycam video shows the male officer asking about the blood on the female officer. Once she explains it is the suspect’s blood his concerns vanish. We also get to see the two officers pit leg restraints on the subject. At the end of the video they carry her into the station and put her in a holding cell. The officer at the station asks if the officers were hurt. Nobody showed any concern about the suspect.

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That's a tough watch. What almost makes it worse is the arresting officer remained relatively calm throughout but in which case how on earth couldn't he tell that she had issues? Surely the third repeat of 'I'm going home' with no other ability to communicate was a clue. By the time she'd repeated it another umpteen times and clearly had no idea what was happening you think he'd have twigged. He seemed calm, rational, not unintelligent but it appears they have no training or experience in dealing with mental issues. Then the assisting officer turns up and also doesn't recognise she clearly has issues.

It's a frail old woman FFS who keeps repeating the same sentence. If they'd stopped to talk* rather than just issuing commands they could have probably got her in the car no problem.

I mean, our (UK) Police have their issues but they are miles ahead of this lot...

*What was it, eight seconds before he man-handled her to the ground and cuffed her for trying to amble slowly away to 'go home'. Offer to take her home in the car, find out who she lives with and take it from there.
 
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lomiller said:
How do you make them comply? If the police refuse to comply with government or courts what are you going to do, call the police?
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ponderingturtle said:
In theory. In practice local elected officials only have a say in the leadership of the department and can not have lower ranked people fired. The only way the local government would have to apply pressure on them would be through the budget. And maybe with time the courts would eventually do something if the police refuse to obey the order of the court, see Sheriff Joe and his conviction/pardon for the biggest case of this I am aware of.
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So who do US police actually answer to? Who is their boss?
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
That's a tough watch. What almost makes it worse is the arresting officer remained relatively calm throughout but in which case how on earth couldn't he tell that she had issues? Surely the third repeat of 'I'm going home' with no other ability to communicate was a clue. By the time she'd repeated it another umpteen times and clearly had no idea what was happening you think he'd have twigged. He seemed calm, rational, not unintelligent but it appears they have no training or experience in dealing with mental issues. Then the assisting officer turns up and also doesn't recognise she clearly has issues.

It's a frail old woman FFS who keeps repeating the same sentence. If they'd stopped to talk* rather than just issuing commands they could have probably got her in the car no problem.

I mean, our (UK) Police have their issues but they are miles ahead of this lot...

*What was it, eight seconds before he man-handled her to the ground and cuffed her for trying to amble slowly away to 'go home'. Offer to take her home in the car, find out who she lives with and take it from there.
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I mean, at her age, where was she going to go? It's like she'd be a problem if he took a bit of time to talk.

Plus, it's my understanding that the goods were returned to the store, so why did the officer act as if she was a fleeing thief? She clearly made a mistake.
 
RolandRat said:
So who do US police actually answer to? Who is their boss?
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RecoveringYuppy said:
The mayor of the city typically.
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City police typically answer to a police chief who is themselves a police officer, the police chief may answer to the mayor but in the case of Sheriffs it may be an elected position. When they answer to a mayor it's often an arms length relationship with the few oversight tools.

The people with the authority to review police behavior are typically still police officers themselves. Reforming "internal affairs" and making a fully independent agency that answers to civilian authorities rather then being just more police officers is one step that can be taken to make police more accountable, but at best it's a start not a full on fix.
 
lomiller said:
City police typically answer to a police chief who is themselves a police officer, the police chief may answer to the mayor but in the case of Sheriffs it may be an elected position. When they answer to a mayor it's often an arms length relationship with the few oversight tools.

The people with the authority to review police behavior are typically still police officers themselves. Reforming "internal affairs" and making a fully independent agency that answers to civilian authorities rather then being just more police officers is one step that can be taken to make police more accountable, but at best it's a start not a full on fix.
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The DA is an important role in this as well, but it's fair to also consider them a "cop", in the broader view of things.

Firing and other workplace discipline might come through city hall or internal affairs like you describe, but much of the conduct that is discussed is, first and foremost, criminal activity. Getting DA's that are willing to vigorously prosecute on-duty crimes by cops is an important step. Often it's the case the DA will either not pursue them, or quietly terminate these cases using the Grand Jury as a black box.
 
RolandRat said:
So who do US police actually answer to? Who is their boss?
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The union.

Eventually you would get the courts to step in and call on other law enforcement to deal with the police but by and large they answer to no one in any kind of timely fashion.
 
lomiller said:
City police typically answer to a police chief who is themselves a police officer, the police chief may answer to the mayor but in the case of Sheriffs it may be an elected position. When they answer to a mayor it's often an arms length relationship with the few oversight tools.

The people with the authority to review police behavior are typically still police officers themselves. Reforming "internal affairs" and making a fully independent agency that answers to civilian authorities rather then being just more police officers is one step that can be taken to make police more accountable, but at best it's a start not a full on fix.
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And of course you get the union fighting to bring back cops fired for killing unarmed people in multiple separate incidents. So even their commanding officer might not have a lot of leeway to get rid of them.
 
lomiller said:
Modern militaries have stopped using these tactics because they don’t work. The very limited increase in short term safety and stability get more than undone by the increase in hatred these tactics create in the population they are trying to control.

It's more like police are emulating failed 19'th century ideas of how to conduct an occupation.
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I recall an article about the occupation of I think Iraq where US military described the UK practice of politeness at checkpoints, not wearing shades to make social contact easier as "institutionalised cowardice". I'll try to find the article.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Not being sufficiently subservient of course.
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Yes, I clearly saw him displaying irritation at the actions of the police officers. If I understand it correctly this constitutes resisting arrest, which is therefore grounds for arrest. Circular reasoning is the best kind of reasoning because it's circular.

Dave
 
Wudang said:
I recall an article about the occupation of I think Iraq where US military described the UK practice of politeness at checkpoints, not wearing shades to make social contact easier as "institutionalised cowardice". I'll try to find the article.
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I had a boss at a past job who made a point of being rude, abrasive, and insulting to other contractors we worked with, and criticized me for trying to be polite and pleasant. He almost got the company sued for slander though, after telling a client that another contractor was a bunch of incompetent crooks.
He was ex-Army, but he was also a jerk in general.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
She says their bikes needed to be Registered at the police station, they needed license, and receipts saying the bike was theirs.

Video in link

https://twitter.com/deep_dab/status/1384019471363309568

Any idea what is going on?

Why is he taken away in cuffs?
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Where I live all people being arrested are cuffed. Suffolk County NY. Not sure what the justification is. My kids saw their science teacher arrested and cuffed. Turns out it was for a bench warrant on a traffic matter.
 
A part of this whole conversation we're having about our out of control policing that is being missed is the criminalization of everything. We've given the cops all the tools they need to hassle people by making everything illegal.

These localities need to start asking "are we willing to arrest people for this" when passing laws. If the answer is no, they should rethink what they are doing.

This city requires, by law, a license to ride a bike. Cops hassling black people for not having their bike license is a very predictable consequence of this.
 
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