It's not very complicated: there's an hierarchy of credibility that often changes according to opinion. For several reasons, I ma of the opinion that the IDF is generally less credible than human rights organisations. But tis doesn't mean that the IDF has zero credibility. It only means that, compared to certain other sources, the IDF comes second.
You say yourself it's only your opinion. Even less reason to say it again and again.
You're relatively new to this debate.
Hardly. I just tend to lurk more than post. Besides, I live in Jerusalem, so this debate involves issues with which I can confidently claim I am more familiar than you. That's not meant to belittle your opinion.
I tried the reasoned approach with the "Israel-right-or-wrong" crowd. It didn't work. Other people before me tried the honest debate route, and it lead them nowhere. Yes, you are right, these things turn into "he-said-she-said", but not because I want to. It has became like that because any criticism of Israel is met with great hostility around these parts. It is very hard to actually discuss the subject without name calling, heaps of fallacies and misleading dishonest debating. There's a lot of bad faith, lets-win-at-any-price attitudes. The "Israel-right-or-wrong" crowd don't really want to debate, they want to shut people up.
Ah, yes, the "I'm a persecuted minority whom they're trying to silence" defense. Grow up.
I've read your posts, Orwell. "Reasoned debate" indeed. Trot out one-sided sources - just as you accuse your opponents of doing - and profess deafness to anything else. You do more damage to your - and my - position than you realize. With friends like Orwell...
I haven't gone over backwards. You probably haven't followed other discussions on the subject here.
I certainly have. See my comments above.
What's the big deal about Webfusion's credibility? He's not the only partisan hack around here. He has used the same kind of demagogic arguments as the other partisan hacks. I don't find him less credible on this subject than, say, Skeptic. It's just that Webfusion seems to be the only one who actually cares that I don't find him credible, the other partisan hacks seem to not give a damn. But what the hell does he expect, after all the male bovine manure he said?
I find more BS and evasion in your statements than in web's. In fact I find none in webfusion's posts at all. To me, Orwell, you come across as a partisan hack more than any of your opponents do. To your credit you don't spout propaganda or distorted history, but you seem to have curiously inconsistent standards for determining the reliability of information, and that undermines
your credibility. A little critical thinking goes a long way; don't just swallow the HR organizations' reports without considering how they might not provide all the crucial information. I realize that's a tall order for someone not immersed in the material, but it's something you'd do well to keep in mind, even if pursuing that course of action is impractical. As a starting point, remember that although they claim to be politically independent, these organizations - every single one, though not necessarily to the same degree - has a tendency to give greater weight to Palestinian accounts than to Israeli accounts, out of anti-occupation bias. It's a bitch to avoid in that line of work, but it comes through in every report, clear to the objective eye. The IDF at least has reasons to strive for accuracy: avoiding repetition of mistakes; accountability to the citizenry; and conservation of resources, to name a few. The organizations have no such need, especially since sympathetic media don't bother covering the mistakes. I'm willing to bet the mule incident mentioned above will appear in at least one organization's report despite the forensic evidence that the death had nothing to do with the arrest.
And it pains me, because these organizations could be the key to more enlightened Israeli policymaking, but they can't seem to see with nonpolitical eyes.
