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The behaviour of US police officers

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Craig4 said:
It's important to consider that real life doesn't have freeze frame. We need to look at it how the officer saw it. He was chasing an armed suspect (remember these two were involved in a shooting). The officer saw a fluid motion that happened in less than a second.
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That is what they train for, split second decisions and assessments. The practice targets that flip into view and there is 1 second to assess and decide whether or not to shoot based on what the target picture shows.

The boy behaved as the police are trained to expect. The boy was armed and he had two choices; turn and shoot or turn drop the gun and surrender. He clearly turned, dropped the gun and surrendered. The cop was telling him to do that. The boy did as he was told.

If that was a training scenario, the cop would have failed as he shot someone surrendering.
 
Nessie said:
That is what they train for, split second decisions and assessments. The practice targets that flip into view and there is 1 second to assess and decide whether or not to shoot based on what the target picture shows.

The boy behaved as the police are trained to expect. The boy was armed and he had two choices; turn and shoot or turn drop the gun and surrender. He clearly turned, dropped the gun and surrendered. The cop was telling him to do that. The boy did as he was told.

If that was a training scenario, the cop would have failed as he shot someone surrendering.
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I can't speak for what they do now, but no, that is not how we trained. There are pass fail scenarios, but mostly on the sim you it's a talk through with the training officer to see if you worked through the threat in your mind.
 
Darat said:
I cannot see what grounds there was for shooting him, .
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Sure you can, it's as clear as black and white.

Now, maybe you meant to say you cannot _understand_ what grounds there were, but, yeah, that's because you don't see a black person and think, "He must have done something for which he deserves to be killed"
 
BobTheCoward said:
No, we don't. The officer shot an unarmed person. No other detail is relevant.
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Despite our frequent and chronic disagreement on many issues, I do agree with this one. To say otherwise is to admit that the command the officer gave could not be complied with and was itself irrelevant.

I am willing to accept the possibility that the shooting was an error, but it was certainly an error, and a serious, fatal one, worth considering whether the cop should be terminated for his incompetence. If you cannot accept that it was a serious, fatal error of judgment, you must accept that the command was bogus and the cop intended to kill the kid whatever he did.
 
Kestrel said:
Loveland, Colorado police arrest a woman with dementia for shoplifting.



One might think that the cops would notice this woman has a problem.
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That's one of the most horrible things I've seen. Heartbreaking. They probably ruined the rest of her life. And for what? Not immediately respecting their authority?
 
Ryokan said:
That's one of the most horrible things I've seen. Heartbreaking. They probably ruined the rest of her life. And for what? Not immediately respecting their authority?
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I find it amazing that these officers never recognized that this woman wasn’t playing with a full deck. Or perhaps they just didn’t card. The both stayed in badass cop mode and kept escalating the violence. Neither one of them should be wearing a badge.

What got lost is the idea that the police are part of the community. Their job is to help people. Not maximize the number of arrests or beatings.
 
Darat said:
This is what really seems so strange to me - that the USA (as a whole) doesn’t seem to have understood what they have created with their police forces.

Police forces aren’t particularly loved in any country (talking about “free” countries), they are after all often the enforcement arm of the state and society and as such often ruffle feathers. And yes there are “bad apples” in all of them, and yes they all could improve BUT I don’t know of any other free country that the police are like an invasion force keeping an unhappy to be invaded populace “in place”.

Not only that but their police seem to be (as people have pointed out) less controlled, under less regulations and more dangerous to the general population than when their own military are an unwanted invasion force in a foreign country!

It is a mind boggling situation.
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At last check, far too much of the modern police tactics book was literally created based on that of an occupying army, after all.

Yes, American police act like occupying armies. They literally studied their tactics

The founders of modern policing quelled foreign uprisings. ‘Demilitarizing’ police will be harder than taking away their tanks

BobTheCoward said:
No, we don't. The officer shot an unarmed person. No other detail is relevant.
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I disagree. That the unarmed person was complying with the officer's instructions is also relevant.
 
erlando said:
I thought that was only in the movies. The US really has a huge problem with their policing.
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The only surprising thing is they are still doing it decades after we knew about it. They also plant drugs on people they want to arrest.

And it was pretty disgusting when the cop shot that fleeing man in the back (on video) and dropped his taser near the body (on camera) and he got away with it.

Whoops, he got 20 years in a plea deal after the first mistrial. It's hard to keep these cop murders straight.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
The only surprising thing is they are still doing it decades after we knew about it. They also plant drugs on people they want to arrest.
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Not so surprising, really. An old comic book quote seems particularly relevant to that, though. "Who Watches the Watchmen?" When the people who are there to supposedly keep them accountable and in check generally actively defend and protect them, that's actively enabling and encouraging them to go rampant.
 
Kestrel said:
I find it amazing that these officers never recognized that this woman wasn’t playing with a full deck. Or perhaps they just didn’t card. The both stayed in badass cop mode and kept escalating the violence. Neither one of them should be wearing a badge.

What got lost is the idea that the police are part of the community. Their job is to help people. Not maximize the number of arrests or beatings.
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The female cop joke/bragged a short bit after they were done like they had just taken down some big suspect. The woman weighed 80 pounds! And two cops had to break her bones to control the woman and they were proud after at having won the fight. :mad:
 
it got worse in Brooklym Heights last night, which is not Good.
This kind of crap just plays into the hands of the bigots.
 
Aridas said:
Not so surprising, really. An old comic book quote seems particularly relevant to that, though. "Who Watches the Watchmen?" When the people who are there to supposedly keep them accountable and in check generally actively defend and protect them, that's actively enabling and encouraging them to go rampant.
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Actually that is an old ROman saying that Alan Moore borrowed for "The Watchmen".
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Picture of cops macing journalists in Minnesota



https://twitter.com/AlexKentTN/status/1383290508181590018

Brooklyn Center government opposes the use of less lethal weapons to disperse protests, and the cops promptly ignored this and started spraying the streets with tear gas, pepper spray, and beanbag rounds.

A judge issued a restraining order against the unconstitutional targeting of journalists, and the cops simply ignore it.

The cops are rioting. It's the same pattern every time. The police are a political axis all to their own, and they will not tolerate challenges to their supreme authority. Constitution, lawmakers, and courts be damned.

The police are above the law, and they'll use any amount of violence necessary against anyone that challenges that.
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If this is true then what the actual ****? Why isn't the local government sacking these people? Do not the police have to comply with local government in the US?
 
erlando said:
That is some apologetic ********. The officer orders him to drop the gun and show his hands. The boy does so but the officer doesn't give himself time to actually confirm that the boy complied before murdering him.

He did exactly what he was told but was executed anyway.
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This is the important part. Blithely ignored by the police dept. PR rep apologist who has been on the air angrily talking about how the killer cop "... only had eight tenths of a second to determine ..." if there was a threat.

Eight tenths of a second was all the time the killer cop allowed himself to have. It was not a choice made by the child he gunned down.

Maybe if he had given himself another two tenths of a second he might have realized he was about to gun down a kid who was complying exactly with his commands.
 
RolandRat said:
If this is true then what the actual ****? Why isn't the local government sacking these people? Do not the police have to comply with local government in the US?
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They might be afraid those people will start harassing them, arresting them, and beating the t-mortal **** out of them. Just like those people do to anyone who challenges their authority.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The female cop joke/bragged a short bit after they were done like they had just taken down some big suspect. The woman weighed 80 pounds! And two cops had to break her bones to control the woman and they were proud after at having won the fight. :mad:
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The long version of the bodycam video shows the male officer asking about the blood on the female officer. Once she explains it is the suspect’s blood his concerns vanish. We also get to see the two officers pit leg restraints on the subject. At the end of the video they carry her into the station and put her in a holding cell. The officer at the station asks if the officers were hurt. Nobody showed any concern about the suspect.

 
Tennessee Student Killed by Police Did Not Fire Bullet That Hit Officer, Officials Say

A student who was fatally shot during a confrontation with the police on Monday at a Knoxville, Tenn., high school did not fire the bullet that struck an officer who was wounded, the authorities said on Wednesday.

The disclosure by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation contradicted its earlier statements that the police officer had been shot by the student at Austin-East Magnet High School.

The bureau said on Wednesday that the student’s gun had been fired in a struggle with officers. “Preliminary examinations indicate the bullet that struck the KPD officer was not fired from the student’s handgun,” the bureau said in a statement.

Investigators declined to say whether the bullet that struck the officer in the leg had come from his own gun or from another officer’s weapon.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/14/us/knoxville-school-shooting-anthony-thompson.html
 
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