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The behaviour of US police officers

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You don't think it's a problem that the police are explicitly breaking the ordinances passed by civilian government?

The city is well aware of the problems of rioting and still decided to pass a law banning the police use of tear gas and other less lethal weapons, which the police promptly ignored.

Nope, if a big problem.
But I suggest that allowing a mob to go crazy is only going to make things worse.
SO how the hell are the police supposed to stop a mob? Just stand back and let them do what they want to do?
I got a feeling that is just what you want.
And the city leaving the police no way to control a violent mob was just plain stupid. I think the police were right in breaking it.
 
A lot of law enforcement commentators are saying that the pull over on SUnday was just plain bad procedure. You always move the suspect away from the open car door and jto the front of the car after you ask him to get out of the car just so he can't jump back in. That is police procedure 101. Looks as if the police here just got plain old sloppy.

Yep.
 
Police Chief resigned.

So did the police officer who did the shooting.

“I have loved every minute of being a police officer and serving this community to the best of my ability, but I believe it is in the best interest of the community, the department, and my fellow officers if I resign immediately,” Potter wrote in her resignation letter, as reported by the St. Paul Pioneer Press.

I think it might sound a little more compassionate if she mentioned that there was one minute in particular that she didn't enjoy.

(You know, the one where she shot and killed a man at a traffic stop, in case it wasn't obvious.)
 
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Why cops get away with murder. (Link from 2015).
When police officers shoot people under questionable circumstances, Dr. Lewinski is often there to defend their actions. Among the most influential voices on the subject, he has testified in or consulted in nearly 200 cases over the last decade or so and has helped justify countless shootings around the country.

His conclusions are consistent: The officer acted appropriately, even when shooting an unarmed person. Even when shooting someone in the back. Even when witness testimony, forensic evidence or video footage contradicts the officer’s story.

He has appeared as an expert witness in criminal trials, civil cases and disciplinary hearings, and before grand juries, where such testimony is given in secret and goes unchallenged. In addition, his company, the Force Science Institute, has trained tens of thousands of police officers on how to think differently about police shootings that might appear excessive.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/...first-and-he-will-answer-questions-later.html
 
So did the police officer who did the shooting.

It has been a few hours since I heard it, so may have changed she has offered her resignation, but they hadn't accepted it (as yet)

Dude has as well and they have accepted his (her boss)
 
Pretty sure those intent laws apply to everyone.


I agree that in a perfect world they are intended to apply to everyone equally.

But in real life it seems that the "felt threatened" defense works for law enforcement best, with whites who aren't cops and shoot darkies coming in a not all that distant second.

Everyone else trying it has a tough hill to climb.
 
Wasn't she found guilty by a jury?

How can anyone claim that there is "insufficient evidence to convict her of murder" when there was a trial where evidence was presented and the jury found her guilty?
She was convicted by a jury of her peers. That is the only evidence we need to determine that there was sufficient evidence to convict her.


You're asking the wrong person. I just reported the article.
Perhaps you might direct your query to her lawyers.
 
That someone is posting on a thread, asking for advice on how not to get shot by the police during a routine traffic stop, is evidence that the behaviour of the police in the USA is not what should be expected of a police officer.

I hate referring to those people in uniform as cops or police because that is not how they work.

To me a police officer is someone who has signed up to take risks to themselves so as to preserve the lives of others. Their duty is to detect and arrest suspect criminals so that they should be taken to court and justice served. They are there to calm situations down and preserve the peace. They are there to make good people feel safe and bad people worry they will be caught and convicted. In the UK those duties are enshrined in the law and form the basis of how they are trained.

It has been made abundantly clear by many that in the USA, the police have no duty to protect the public (I believe that may even be backed by law). They are not expected to take risks. It is fine for them to shoot to kill and not arrest. The will inflame situations, make them much worse and think there is no place for patient talking down of violent incidents. They make good people feel scared. They make bad people react with extreme violence back at them because they do not realise the tough guy act causes others to act tough back. The makes many US police no different from vigilante thugs dishing out summary justice.

Why do so many on this forum keep on defending the behaviour of their police and how they are policed?
Congrats, this is one of the most laughably ignorant, ill-informed, and flat-out asiinine posts about U.S. cops I've seen in a long time, and given it was done in 2017, especially impressive.

I have to wonder where you get your "information" (i.e. laughable delusions) from. I suspect like most, it's largely the media, because good cops and cops just doing their job (which you pretend they don't do) don't get the headlines; the slimy ones do, even though they represent an (I can't emphasize these next words strongly enough) EXTREMELY TINY MINORITY of all U.S. cops.

Sure, there are bad cops. News flash: there are bad people in EVERY profession. Welcome to the human race. That doesn't mean they're the norm, to say the least. Do you know how many cops there are in the U.S.? No? I do. About 800,000. Eight hundred thousand. And of ALL those, and the literally millions of interactions they have with people every single day, how many of those result in all the nasty terrible tales of woe you seem to think are the norm? Obviously, damn few, esp when you consider that the media knows what powerful "click bait" that stuff is and so scours the countryside with great effort to take any such people or incidents and blast it in your face, where they know millions of idiots will devour it like piranhas on a Thanksgiving turkey, completely ignoring what ridiculously rare events they are.

Where are the stories of cops simply doing their job, or better yet, putting up with a LOT of flaming aholes out there in society yet not giving those clowns the smack upside the head (or more) they so richly deserve? What about the cops who are attacked, even killed, by slime for no reason other than they're cops, never mind the ones who put their lives on the line trying to stop thugs from being thugs? Nah, doesn't fit in with the trendy cop-hate, so you don't hear much about that...at best it's given a small secondary story line well down the page of any media site. Nobody really cares if a cop is killed now, no matter how great a cop and human being they were...because Minnesota etc.

I could go on, but it's likely wasted on the likes of you. You and those like you would rather just dream up whatever delusions give you a reason to climb in your ivory tower and spew absurd dribblings like this, or the "defund the police" lunacy. You're not interested in the tiniest about facts or reality or perspective. You're far too addicted to self-righteous hissies.

And yknow what, part of me almost wishes that defunding the police would happen. Let's ditch the police, watch the chaos that ensues, and listen to all the "defund the police" people wailing about all the crimes committed on them that go unchecked and unpunished and why isn't anyone doing anything?

The only problem with that is that those of us with functioning brains would be affected just as much, and unlike the first group, we don't deserve it.
 
It's not that there's a lot of bad cops, it's that there's a serious lack of accountability for bad cops and a serious lack of interest giving them any.
 
It's not that there's a lot of bad cops, it's that there's a serious lack of accountability for bad cops and a serious lack of interest giving them any.

Exactly. It's not just about the rotten apples. It's that it's clear there are plenty but they're not even checking before serving them up.
 
Congrats, this is one of the most laughably ignorant, ill-informed, and flat-out asiinine posts about U.S. cops I've seen in a long time, and given it was done in 2017, especially impressive.

I have to wonder where you get your "information" (i.e. laughable delusions) from. I suspect like most, it's largely the media, because good cops and cops just doing their job (which you pretend they don't do) don't get the headlines; the slimy ones do, even though they represent an (I can't emphasize these next words strongly enough) EXTREMELY TINY MINORITY of all U.S. cops.

Sure, there are bad cops. News flash: there are bad people in EVERY profession. Welcome to the human race. That doesn't mean they're the norm, to say the least. Do you know how many cops there are in the U.S.? No? I do. About 800,000. Eight hundred thousand. And of ALL those, and the literally millions of interactions they have with people every single day, how many of those result in all the nasty terrible tales of woe you seem to think are the norm? Obviously, damn few, esp when you consider that the media knows what powerful "click bait" that stuff is and so scours the countryside with great effort to take any such people or incidents and blast it in your face, where they know millions of idiots will devour it like piranhas on a Thanksgiving turkey, completely ignoring what ridiculously rare events they are.

Where are the stories of cops simply doing their job, or better yet, putting up with a LOT of flaming aholes out there in society yet not giving those clowns the smack upside the head (or more) they so richly deserve? What about the cops who are attacked, even killed, by slime for no reason other than they're cops, never mind the ones who put their lives on the line trying to stop thugs from being thugs? Nah, doesn't fit in with the trendy cop-hate, so you don't hear much about that...at best it's given a small secondary story line well down the page of any media site. Nobody really cares if a cop is killed now, no matter how great a cop and human being they were...because Minnesota etc.

I could go on, but it's likely wasted on the likes of you. You and those like you would rather just dream up whatever delusions give you a reason to climb in your ivory tower and spew absurd dribblings like this, or the "defund the police" lunacy. You're not interested in the tiniest about facts or reality or perspective. You're far too addicted to self-righteous hissies.

And yknow what, part of me almost wishes that defunding the police would happen. Let's ditch the police, watch the chaos that ensues, and listen to all the "defund the police" people wailing about all the crimes committed on them that go unchecked and unpunished and why isn't anyone doing anything?

The only problem with that is that those of us with functioning brains would be affected just as much, and unlike the first group, we don't deserve it.

To summarise; the rate of police executing citizens during stops/arrests is at an acceptable level when taken in a nationwide context.

Conclusion - everything things is fine and there is no need to even examine, let alone seek change in, the culturally engrained, casual disregard for life prevalent in US policing.
 
I know I am probably going to get **** kicked for this as I am not American, as "what would I know?", but to be fair to the cops from a purely independent eye view, what I see is this. Re cops being evil.

From what a quick look shows is there was 700,000 full time cops in the US. (2019 stat)
Even from all the threads on here highlighting dodgy **** from some of them, it is IMO pushing it to say the majority are actually that bad.

Even the stats showing mild stops that could be shown as a kind of racism via profiling, which are small in the grand scheme of things, don't show how many cop offenders are repeat offenders, which would whittle the number down , while also showing it is the bosses hiding it.
 
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The officer involved in the death of Daunte Wright has resigned (breaking news alert, link as soon as I get one)

When that happens, does that me she loses any protection she would had had through her police union, such as any legal costs? Or can she resign from the police and stay in the union to keep legal cover? What about her pension or any medical cover she may have had?
 
I know I am probably going to get **** kicked for this as I am not American, as "what would I know?", but to be fair to the cops from a purely independent eye view, what I see is this. Re cops being evil.

From what a quick look shows is there was 700,000 full time cops in the US. (2019 stat)
Even from all the threads on here highlighting dodgy **** from some of them, it is IMO pushing it to say the majority are actually that bad.

Even the stats showing mild stops that could be shown as a kind of racism via profiling, which are small in the grand scheme of things, don't show how many cop offenders are repeat offenders, which would whittle the number down , while also showing it is the bosses hiding it.

It's really only the most heinous examples that make their way into this thread. The thousands and thousands of stops every day where the choice of who to stop and the way in which the stop was carried out are problematical don't get reported. You're right that the majority are "not that bad", but a substantial number are far from ideal.

Another big issue is the way that the police close ranks to protect their own. It's natural that they should do this, but it means that tens or hundreds of officers enable and/or protect the bad apples. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.
 
Congrats, this is one of the most laughably ignorant, ill-informed, and flat-out asiinine posts about U.S. cops I've seen in a long time, and given it was done in 2017, especially impressive.

...

I stand by everything I said. I gave reasonable explanations to back up my opinions.

That the Washington Post has been tracking police shootings and over the past 5 years, the police have consistently shot and killed nearly 1000 people a year and there is no shortage of highly questionable shootings, are facts.

Daunte Wright and Caron Nazario are two very recent examples of what I was talking about regarding being stopped by the police and fear of death.
 
It's really only the most heinous examples that make their way into this thread. The thousands and thousands of stops every day where the choice of who to stop and the way in which the stop was carried out are problematical don't get reported. You're right that the majority are "not that bad", but a substantial number are far from ideal.
Another big issue is the way that the police close ranks to protect their own. It's natural that they should do this, but it means that tens or hundreds of officers enable and/or protect the bad apples. If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

True

The massive figures of actual reasons for what they consider routine stops, that result in not making the news seem to be highly scewed to black people per capita.

That is definitely an ingrained racial profiling/bias thing I think. Which is definitely dodgy.

Problem is with so many seeming separated police departments, it is hard to see how they can get some sort of group rethink on how they work day to day out to clean the *** think out of their officers.
 
True

The massive figures of actual reasons for what they consider routine stops, that result in not making the news seem to be highly scewed to black people per capita.

That is definitely an ingrained racial profiling/bias thing I think. Which is definitely dodgy.

Problem is with so many seeming separated police departments, it is hard to see how they can get some sort of group rethink on how they work day to day out to clean the *** think out of their officers.

IMO the "problem" stems from the nature of the relationship between the Police and the public in the US.

It also mirrors the relationship between the government and the public in the US.

I'm not sure it's a fixable thing - indeed it seems to be a vicious cycle. Police actions towards the public fuel a lack of trust in the police among large sections of the population, public antipathy towards the police fuel the feeling among the police that they are under attack operating in hostile territory and act accordingly. :(
 
Sure, there are bad cops. News flash: there are bad people in EVERY profession. Welcome to the human race. That doesn't mean they're the norm, to say the least.

If a 'good cop' turns a blind eye to, or covers for a 'bad cop' are they still good cops?
 
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