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Is vegetarianism foolish?

EGarrett

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People are free to form their own eating habits, but don't a lot of reasons for vegetarianism seem foolish?

Like for example, not eating "filthy animals" like a pig. The portions of the pig that you eat never actually come into contact with mud. As far as I know they're muscle, which spends its time on the inside of the body.

And the idea that raising cattle for slaughter is cruel? Is it really? They've been bred for it, and every one of them dies whether you slaughter them or not. I can understand disagreeing with the method, but I don't hear people coming up with better ways of doing it either...

Plus, a lot of these same animals go hungry and scared for most of their lives in the wild, then get torn apart by predators. It could be said that the world is supposed to work that way. (But then again, maybe that doesn't mean we have to introduce intentional suffering) Livestock are raised and given free food and shelter for their entire lives. For animals that's a pretty good deal.

And people are omnivores. We're adapted to eating meat. It's good for us. And on the off-chance that it makes you sick, modern medicine does a good job of covering for you.

What do you think?
 
Is it really time to have this argument again? Already?

A lot of reasons for people's vegetarianism may well be -- indeed are -- foolish. People's reasons for a lot of things are foolish, but that doesn't mean that there are no good reasons. Most vegetarians are such because they don't like the idea of animals being slaughtered for their food when it isn't necessary. If people, other than muslims, avoid pig meat because pigs are filthy, I've never met or heard of those people.

We may be adapted to be omnivores (and pandas are adapted to be carnivores...), but we're also adapted to living on the savannah in small tribes. I'm not sure how this bears on whether somebody feels comfortable with the idea of raising animals for slaughter. I'm also well adapted to have an appendix that ruptures, and a back that isn't really capable of supporting my weight vertically.

Every one of the animals will indeed die anyway. So will every one of the people I meet. What relevance does this have? Should I kill people for food when I feel like it?

Cheers,
Rat.
 
Pandas are carnivores?
Well, that explains the, "Eats, shoots and leaves."
 
I did rather come out with the panda thing without verifying it first, so it may not be strictly true. But I am told that pandas have the teeth and gut of a carnivore, and therefore have to get through tremendous amounts of bamboo to get enough for their carnivore guts to extract the little they can from it. I suspect there is some truth to this, though it possibly overstates the matter. I'm fairly sure they happily eat meat when it's available, and catch rodents in the wild.

Cheers,
Rat.
 
Like for example, not eating "filthy animals" like a pig. The portions of the pig that you eat never actually come into contact with mud. As far as I know they're muscle, which spends its time on the inside of the body.
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I've known quite a few vegetarians, and I've never heard one of them say that they don't eat meat because the animals are filthy. Do some vegetarians really say that?

Perhaps there are religious scriptures that suggest pigs are unclean?
 
It certainly is not parsimonious. Nor is its (by some) argued superiority, on its own supposedly and purported inherent merits, wholly defendable.

-Dr. Imago
 
Only Know One Vegetarian

and others I've heard of don't feel that animals are unclean--rather the reverse. My friend feels all life is sacred and she wants to cause suffering to no fellow creature.

Having worked for a farmers' cooperative in my younger days, I know how turkeys are processed and what they do with diseased birds and spare parts, and don't eat fowl of any kind. I try not to think about beef and pork plants because I can't bear to give up my bacon, ham hock and beans, pot roast, etc. Excuse me, I'm getting hungry.
 
I love animals, I also love to eat meat. It's an important part of our diet. I also think we should feel free to use animals for scientific purposes. Since when do animals have rights? I'm against cruelty for animals, but if it's an animal vs. a human, I will pick the human everytime.
 
Godmode said:
I love animals, I also love to eat meat. It's an important part of our diet. I also think we should feel free to use animals for scientific purposes. Since when do animals have rights? I'm against cruelty for animals, but if it's an animal vs. a human, I will pick the human everytime.
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What do you mean "animal vs. a human?" What kind of situation would entail choosing between human and animal?

If you're against cruelty against animals, than you have that in common with vegetarians.
 
jimtron said:
I've known quite a few vegetarians, and I've never heard one of them say that they don't eat meat because the animals are filthy. Do some vegetarians really say that?
Click to expand...

Not usually when they're actually being honest and describing why they're vegetarians or vegans.

However, many of them (in my estimation, about 30%) use such arguments when making fun of omnivores. Of course, it has to be pointed out that they eat vegetables that are grown in the name of a Penn & Teller show.
 
EGarrett said:
People are free to form their own eating habits, but don't a lot of reasons for vegetarianism seem foolish?

Like for example, not eating "filthy animals" like a pig. The portions of the pig that you eat never actually come into contact with mud. As far as I know they're muscle, which spends its time on the inside of the body.
Click to expand...

Can't respect squeamishness as a reason. I can understand it -- some days I'm grossed out just eating an egg if I think about it too much. But I also know that's just a psychological abberation, not something intrinsically meaningful.

Can't respect woo woo-level belief in animals, either.

What I can respect is doing it for health reasons; god, I wish I had that kind of willpower. But that would be for actually eating lots of vegetables, not for being an obese vegetarian who ate lots of cheese pizzas.
 
There are various reasons why people don't eat meat:

I've met people who simply don't like the taste or texture of meat. No philosophical issue, just the taste/texture. One friend doesn't like meat but she can eat the occasional fast-food hamburger, because it just doesn't seem like meat to her.

Some people have religious or cultural reasons, like my colleague from India who doesn't eat any meat (that he knows of anyway).

I knew a gal who stopped eating red meat; she felt red meat was bad but that chicken was okay. She said something about how the meat section at the grocery store "just looked like flesh to her now" after she made this change. I remember thinking, "Well, it looks like flesh to me, too...yum!"

I don't know why people think a vegetarian/vegan diet is "healthier." I read something recently saying that there is some proof that in the short term it can do some good, but overall, we should eat meat.

It's true, you have to eat very carefully to get enough protein and vitamins if you don't eat meat. To quote Ani DiFranco, "A two-pound bag of M&Ms is vegetarian, but that doesn't mean it's good for you."
 
I am vegetarian and like it. I have no urge to go out and proselytise. Nor do I feel that I am missing anything. Being a vegetarian in India is too easy. Choices, choices. Too much food (a lot of it fattening)

I used to find it difficult when travelling aroad but this has improved beyond recognition in the last few years- Thank all you vegans out there.

Vegetarianism is a personal thing. Like religion.
 
Rat said:
If people, other than muslims, avoid pig meat because pigs are filthy, I've never met or heard of those people.
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Some of those non-Muslim pig-avoiders (make sure you parse that correctly...) are called "Jews."

As to the issue of vegetarianism and health, I think when people think of "healthy vegetarian," they mean "not overweight vegetarian," since if you eliminate meats, you right away knock out a major source of saturated fats. The other sources of the good stuff meat provides (protein, iron, etc) are very low fat- things like spinach and beans. So just a simple replacement means that you're going to be a lot healthier.

However, there is nothing unveggie about frying stuff. An Awesome Blossom is much more along the lines of bioautoterrorism than a lean piece of chicken. It's quite possible for a given vegetarian to be less healthy than a given meat eater.
 
If one is doing it for health reasons, then this is stupid. Period.

Other than that, tastes are tastes and philosophies are philosophies.
 
And as I've said in the past, what I don't like in most vegetarians I've met, is that they look at meat as if it were poison. I can understand if you don't like or don't want to eat meat, but taking an emetic syrup to make yourself puke because you accidentally ate a bite of chicken, this is waaaaaaay too sick.
 
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