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The behaviour of US police officers

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Checkmite said:
People who keep parroting the "if you just comply" line willfully ignore this complication. Comply with which one? Two men with guns in your face simultaneously yelling contradictory instructions at you.

Police departments need to standardize the procedure that when more than one officer is at a scene, only ONE of them should be giving commands to any one citizen and the rest of them need to STFU.
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They already know that's the way it should be. A fundamental tenet of hostage/standoff negotiation is that only one person talks to the suspect(s). It allows for communication that is more clear and consistent than having multiple voices involved.

Unfortunately, modern police training focuses on using force to gain compliance, so much so that the question becomes not whether force should be used in a given situation but rather how much force is acceptable.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Apparently it's his own fault because he didn't comply with the instructions to keep his hands outside the window and at the same time take his belt off and open the door.
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Yup, this one had Daniel Shaver potential alright.

The second he'd have reached down to release the door or his seat belt in the early stages he'da ate lead.
 
Apparently the 'get out' is that he didn't immediately pull over but just slowed and indicated right until he came to the gas station just up the road.
This counts as 'Evading' and justifies the guns and everything else.
It seems that it was his own fault for not complying when he was flashed.
 
Babbylonian said:
They already know that's the way it should be. A fundamental tenet of hostage/standoff negotiation is that only one person talks to the suspect(s). It allows for communication that is more clear and consistent than having multiple voices involved.

Unfortunately, modern police training focuses on using force to gain compliance, so much so that the question becomes not whether force should be used in a given situation but rather how much force is acceptable they can get away with.
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FTFY.
 
Matthew Best said:
Caron Nazario is a US Army lieutenant who was driving an SUV through the town of Windsor, when he was stopped by police. He drove to a gas station before stopping and then was threatened, pepper-sprayed and attacked by the police who pulled him over. When he told them that he was "honestly scared to get out of the car", as they were pointing guns at him, the policeman responded "You should be".

Here's the video of the interaction:



and an article about the lawsuit that Nazario has filed

https://www.military.com/daily-news...rvice-member-during-illegal-stop-lawsuit.html
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Popgun pansy culture. When you have zero spine, murder and mayhem are a question of time.
 
An argument that ranks high with the USian pro-gun crowd is that we need them to protect ourselves from the government. How is that working out? Agents of the state kill far more people in the US per capita than other similar industrial/post-industrial nations. Even if firearm apologists were to argue, "Well, that's because American cops are racist," and they'd never, it's still ultra-high if we only count whites.

Cops are trained to watch out for themselves, shown video after video of someone who took their eyes off a suspect for just a moment, and didn't go home to their family. Every encounter with a police officer is potentially lethal because they can be subdued, and their gun taken.
 
Cain said:
An argument that ranks high with the USian pro-gun crowd is that we need them to protect ourselves from the government. How is that working out? Agents of the state kill far more people in the US per capita than other similar industrial/post-industrial nations. Even if firearm apologists were to argue, "Well, that's because American cops are racist," and they'd never, it's still ultra-high if we only count whites.

Cops are trained to watch out for themselves, shown video after video of someone who took their eyes off a suspect for just a moment, and didn't go home to their family. Every encounter with a police officer is potentially lethal because they can be subdued, and their gun taken.
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Do we not also murder each other at a rate higher than those comparable Nations as well?
The violence by the State should certainly considered in the context of the violence of the citizens who compose that State, no?

That we are willing to allow so many firearms to be in the hands of such a violent populace indicates a little bit of insanity.

Here in Philly, we are on track for 600 murders by gun this year, topping last years' numbers by over 100.
With a clearance rate for homicides of around 35% (and an assumption for the sake of argument that each killer is responsible for an average of 3 of those murders) that means 238 new armed murderers walking our streets just from a two year period.

People demonstrably willing to murder others, who face potential life in prison if apprehended.

We ask our police to protect us from these individuals. Heaven forbid they should be rude while doing so.
 
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A lot of the attitude almost seems to be that criminals are actually outlawed and thus outside the protection of the law.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Apparently the 'get out' is that he didn't immediately pull over but just slowed and indicated right until he came to the gas station just up the road.
This counts as 'Evading' and justifies the guns and everything else.
It seems that it was his own fault for not complying when he was flashed.
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Police officers are more likely to die getting hit by passing traffic than by getting shot in a traffic stop. Any rational officer should appreciate it when a driver finds a safe place to pull over.
 
Kestrel said:
Police officers are more likely to die getting hit by passing traffic than by getting shot in a traffic stop. Any rational officer should appreciate it when a driver finds a safe place to pull over.
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Obeying instantly is the priority.
 
Distracted1 said:

Do we not also murder each other at a rate higher than those comparable Nations as well?
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I wonder why...

The violence by the State should certainly considered in the context of the violence of the citizens who compose that State, no?
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We need guns to protect ourselves from the government. Agents of the government understandably kill lots of citizens because the country is awash in guns. Unpatriotic observers might say firearms are the problem, diverting blame from where it really belongs: non-Asian minorities.
 
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