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Ghislaine Maxwell

Vixen said:
That may or may not be so. Remember: you have received all of this information via Bradley Edwards and Virginia Guiffre's superb PR campaign to highlight the issue.

A criminal court of law will take the view of

  • a presumption of innocence until it has heard ALL of the evidence brought before it
  • a level playing field: the parties will be treated equitably.
  • Justice is to be seen and heard.
  • Justice is blind.
  • Then and only then after ALL the evidence is put forward and EACH of the parties heard is the verdict considered.

And that is the way it should be.
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Last time I looked, I was not on the jury, so I am not limited to a presumption of innocence. The law has to err in favour of the accused, but there is no reason why I can't assess the publicly-available information and conclude that unless Maxwell had a body-double, or her accusers all have lots of reasons to lie, why we should trust them over someone so unsavoury.
 
Ian Osborne said:
Am I right in saying a pyramid selling scheme is a specific type of Ponzi scheme, in that it relies on new recruits paying older ones? Or are they two completely different things?

Either way, the terms are not interchangeable.
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Oh for pete's sake, they are two different, unrelated forms of fraud that both depend on recruiting new blood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
https://www.investopedia.com/insights/what-is-a-pyramid-scheme/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/ponzischeme.asp
 
Darat said:
Was she an actress in The Wolf of Wall St? If so she will of course be an expert on something to do with something or t’other.
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No, silly. She was actually that tragic 8-year-old black girl who was murdered in the UK about 20 years ago by her great aunt and her (great aunt's) boyfriend, which also triggered a long-running and well-known public enquiry into the failings of child social services.

Awful to learn that she was also allegedly lured into a sexy Ponzi scheme by Epstein and Maxwell though. What a miserable young life she had.
 
Vixen said:
That may or may not be so. Remember: you have received all of this information via Bradley Edwards and Virginia Guiffre's superb PR campaign to highlight the issue.
.....
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No, actually, we've received quite a lot of information directly from the prosecutors who have filed federal and state charges against her.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/29/us/ghislaine-maxwell-sex-trafficking-charges/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epstein/index.html
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...ll-jeffrey-epsteins-accused-partner-in-crime/
 
LondonJohn said:
No, silly. She was actually that tragic 8-year-old black girl who was murdered in the UK about 20 years ago by her great aunt and her (great aunt's) boyfriend, which also triggered a long-running and well-known public enquiry into the failings of child social services.

Awful to learn that she was also allegedly lured into a sexy Ponzi scheme by Epstein and Maxwell though. What a miserable young life she had.
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No, no, no, that was Victoria Climbie. I'm fairly sure this Victoria is a well-known former Spice Girl with an aversion to smiling (not surprising given that she's a victim of such a dreadful crime, as well as being a Spice Girl).
 
Bob001 said:
No, actually, we've received quite a lot of information directly from the prosecutors who have filed federal and state charges against her.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/29/us/ghislaine-maxwell-sex-trafficking-charges/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/02/us/ghislaine-maxwell-jeffrey-epstein/index.html
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profil...ll-jeffrey-epsteins-accused-partner-in-crime/
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Why have you quoted three different newspaper articles when they all get their information from the same one or two centralised press agencies?

Did you not know that?

You can quote two dozen news articles but it doesn't add anything to the sum.
 
Vixen said:
Why have you quoted three different newspaper articles when they all get their information from the same one or two centralised press agencies?

Did you not know that?

You can quote two dozen news articles but it doesn't add anything to the sum.
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You hear that? You can quote any number of actual sources but it doesn't matter. Having watched a movie, however, makes all the difference in the world.

Congratulations, Vixen, assuming that is all performance theatre.
 
Belz... said:
You hear that? You can quote any number of actual sources but it doesn't matter. Having watched a movie, however, makes all the difference in the world.

Congratulations, Vixen, assuming that is all performance theatre.
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Not my problem if you are unable to spot tongue-in-cheek.
 
Bob001 said:
Oh for pete's sake, they are two different, unrelated forms of fraud that both depend on recruiting new blood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme
https://www.investopedia.com/insights/what-is-a-pyramid-scheme/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/ponzischeme.asp
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I have noticed that people who know little about a topic do tend to rely heavily on Wikipedia-type sites. Not criticising. It is commendable that you should look it up to clarify your understanding.
 
Matthew Best said:
No, no, no, that was Victoria Climbie. I'm fairly sure this Victoria is a well-known former Spice Girl with an aversion to smiling (not surprising given that she's a victim of such a dreadful crime, as well as being a Spice Girl).
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Bloody hell, really? Well, that might explain the lyrics to the Spice Girls song "Who Do You Think You Are". It's now clear to me that it's a harrowing autobiographical account of Posh Spice's first *introduction* to Prince Andrew:

Note the lines:


Giving is good as long as you're getting
What's driving you it's ambition and betting

I said who do you think you are
Ooh some kind of superstar (oh, oh, oh)
Ed's note: this is obviously rhythmic shouts of pain and violation

You have got to swing it, shake it, move it, make it
Who do you think you are
Trust it, use it, prove it, groove it
Show me how good you are
Swing it, shake it, move it, make it
Who do you think you are
Trust it, use it, prove it, groove it
Show how good you are


And the two most horrifying lyric lines from that song, which now receive their true, sinister explanation:

You're swelling out in the wrong direction

and

The race is on to get out of the bottom


Poor, poor Victoria.
 
Vixen said:
Why have you quoted three different newspaper articles when they all get their information from the same one or two centralised press agencies?
....
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If you had taken the time to look you would see that they quote the federal and New York prosecutors who actually charged Maxwell with numerous crimes. Or do you think the press shouldn't base their reports on actual sources?
 
Vixen said:
I have noticed that people who know little about a topic do tend to rely heavily on Wikipedia-type sites. Not criticising. It is commendable that you should look it up to clarify your understanding.
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It's laughable that you're not willing to do the same.
 
Bob001 said:
If you had taken the time to look you would see that they quote the federal and New York prosecutors who actually charged Maxwell with numerous crimes. Or do you think the press shouldn't base their reports on actual sources?
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All the prosecutors were doing was laying out their charges. That is not the same as hearing Maxwell's side of the story.
 
Bob001 said:
It's laughable that you're not willing to do the same.
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I don't need to. I worked several years on Proceeds of Crime Act (POCA) cases so am quite familiar with the thousand and one variations of fraud. It was awfully sweet of you to lecture me on Ponzi. However, no criminal sits down and says, hey, let's start a Ponzi scheme: we had better see what Wikipedia says first to make sure we carry it out exactly to the letter in case someone mistakes it for a pyramid selling scheme or some other kind of fraud. The truth is, my friend, criminals are very creative and rarely repeat an historical crime step by step. Many major financial crimes are unique in their own way. For you to claim Epstein should have looked up Wikipediia to get it right is rather quaint. However, the truth is, Epstein had zero respect for the people he abused and conned. He had nothing but contempt for both his sex worker victims or his illustrous clientele. It is doubtful he had much respect for Maxwell either, but we shall see at her trial whether one shoudl pity her or despise her.
 
Vixen said:
All the prosecutors were doing was laying out their charges. That is not the same as hearing Maxwell's side of the story.
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We know her side. The links quote her lawyer. She's innocent. She never did any of it.
 
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