What on earth are you raving about? You -- not anybody else -- first claimed that Epstein and Maxwell were running a "sex Ponzi scheme." And apparently you still are.
Ghislaine Maxwell
- Thread starter Samson
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What on earth are you raving about? You -- not anybody else -- first claimed that Epstein and Maxwell were running a "sex Ponzi scheme." And apparently you still are.
Belz...
Fiend God
Wow, you can't even do humour without being adversarial.
What was the humour in pointing out that the links all had the same sources? I'm genuinely curious to see how you'll twist yourself into pretzels for this one.
Belz...
Fiend God
As opposed to people who know nothing about a topic tending to rely on the Wolf of Wall-Street.
Belz...
Fiend God
And yet you're unfamiliar with what constitutes a ponzi scheme vs a pyramid scheme. But you've seen The Wolf of Wall Street so I guess I'm out of my element, here.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I predict that Maxwell's side of the story is going to be, "even if I did do those things (which I do not admit), it shouldn't count because of these technicalities."
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Never mind. It is not a joke if one has to explain it.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I could say Epstein and Maxwell are like a pair of scavenging wolves. That's my analogy. End of.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
I predict she will 'do a Weinstein' and get her rottweiler barrister to savage the witnesses testifying against her. It will be brutal.
Belz...
Fiend God
The tongue-in-cheek reference was to The Wolf of Wall Street.
Were you also joking when you implied you had any knowledge whatsoever of criminal law, and when you mistook a statement of fact for a legal judgment?
That's not what "don't explain the joke" means, but then they haven't made a movie about that for you to become an expert on the back of yet.
And it got Weinstein, 67, a 23 year sentence. That might not be the most effective strategy.
LondonJohn
Penultimate Amazing
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Well yeah, but he does surely get some credit for successfully managing The Beatles - first to British dominance, then to World dominance.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
"Gislaine Maxwell was railroaded. Even though the defense thoroughly eviscerated all the witnesses, the jury still returned a guilty verdict. There must have been tampering. The real criminals here are the judge and his co-conspirators!"
- Somebody in 2024, probably
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smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
FTFY
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Earlier someone raised the issue of prosecuting Maxwell's customers. So here's a question: Should the prosecutors offer Maxwell's customers plea deals, in exchange for their testimony?
Personally I think if it comes down to whether or not they can secure a conviction for Maxwell, they should probably offer some deals to her customers. I'd rather a few of them get relative slaps on the wrist, in exchange for ensuring she's put away, then her going free while the prosecution throws the book at a few of her customers.
I also like the Brazilian system better: Instead of plea deals, they offer sentencing deals. If you cooperate fully with the police and the courts, you still get convicted of the heinous crimes you actually committed. But you get a more lenient sentence. It's similar to getting time off for good behavior, or getting paroled because you've shown real remorse. Similar, but superior to those, since you're actually contributing up front to the pursuit of justice, rather than just apologizing for your injustices after all is said and done. Way better than the American grey market of plea deals.
Personally I think if it comes down to whether or not they can secure a conviction for Maxwell, they should probably offer some deals to her customers. I'd rather a few of them get relative slaps on the wrist, in exchange for ensuring she's put away, then her going free while the prosecution throws the book at a few of her customers.
I also like the Brazilian system better: Instead of plea deals, they offer sentencing deals. If you cooperate fully with the police and the courts, you still get convicted of the heinous crimes you actually committed. But you get a more lenient sentence. It's similar to getting time off for good behavior, or getting paroled because you've shown real remorse. Similar, but superior to those, since you're actually contributing up front to the pursuit of justice, rather than just apologizing for your injustices after all is said and done. Way better than the American grey market of plea deals.
catsmate
No longer the 1
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There is no such thing as an "EU standard" murder term.
And you understanding is utterly wrong; the "average" 'life' sentence in Sweden is 20-22 years, 16 yearns in Denmark, 18 years in France, 21 in Switzerland (15 years is the minimum for a life tarriff) et cetera.
Perhaps because you do not understand the severity of the suffering inflicted?
Murderers often have excellent prospects for rehabilitation, it is odd in that it is a severe offense that is often a first offense. Sex offenders, and especially sex traffickers for profit, are not comparable.
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
I wonder if it can be said that people who commit crimes of passion are less likely to re-offend, than people who commit crimes as a business proposition.
Obviously some people have emotional control issues and/or powerful urges, and are likely to commit more crimes of "passion" if they are not helped with these other things.
But a person who carries out a business plan to exploit people for money is probably going to view jail time as a business expense or investment risk, and go right back to that business model (or a similar one) upon release.
On the other hand, I'm probably full of it.
Obviously some people have emotional control issues and/or powerful urges, and are likely to commit more crimes of "passion" if they are not helped with these other things.
But a person who carries out a business plan to exploit people for money is probably going to view jail time as a business expense or investment risk, and go right back to that business model (or a similar one) upon release.
On the other hand, I'm probably full of it.
Agree entirely with the final paragraph. Especially if it means that bad faith could get the sentence increased akin to violating parole conditions
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
Yes! And that is one of the points raised in my readings on the Lava Jato case in Brazil. IIRC, at least one of the co-conspirators had their lenient sentencing revoked when they failed to come up with anything useful to justify the leniency.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
There is no such thing as an "EU standard" murder term.
And you understanding is utterly wrong; the "average" 'life' sentence in Sweden is 20-22 years, 16 yearns in Denmark, 18 years in France, 21 in Switzerland (15 years is the minimum for a life tarriff) et cetera.
Perhaps because you do not understand the severity of the suffering inflicted?
Murderers often have excellent prospects for rehabilitation, it is odd in that it is a severe offense that is often a first offense. Sex offenders, and especially sex traffickers for profit, are not comparable.
I am not sure this is correct, as Finland has the same laws as Sweden and a person convicted of murder rarely gets more than twelve years. I think you need to be careful about the term, 'life' as few people get sentenced to life. Most people convicted of murder will get a set sentence rather than 'life' and that sentence is relatively lenient in many people's eyes. The people who get a life sentence will be those involved in terrorism or serial killers, or some such. I know Sweden brought in a law at the beginning of last year to increase 'life' to 20 years and if that has now been effected, then it has not yet been long enough for '20 years' to be called an 'average' of all those serving sentences for life. Likewise, in the UK, whilst the judges have the power to impose 'tariffs' and 'whole life tariffs', that is purely discretionary, and will apply to the particularly heinous murders, such as terror acts or acts against humanity (which Norway's Breivik was sentenced under and he got 21 years, which is exceptional). In the meantime, most people in the UK convicted of murder rarely get more than twelve years. The problem with a murder conviction anywhere in the western world is that courts have the power to apply a whole range of sentencing from five years to whole life.
In addition, the Latin countries are under Roman Law and their sentencing again will differ from Northern Europe, because of cultural mores and individual acts of state government, although there are similarities in that they are tribunal panels, which although classic Roman Law, adopt the German model, rather than the Napoleonic one of Latin Europe.
If Ghislaine Maxwell is merely a Madam, then I don't see her sentence as being one that demands the equivalent of life.
However, I believe her crimes go beyond mere sex and into the realms of conspiracy and extortion.