Cancel culture IRL

[johnny karate]

I mean, consumer opinion was definitely a factor. Amongst other things.

To me, if we’re trying to analyze it what she said is bad enough or what actions Disney should have taken, you’re going to get a different answer from everyone you ask. But that’s kind of the point, she said what she said and the public weighed in and Disney made their business decisions.

I don’t disagree with any of this. But I think far too much gets made out of the idea that public pressure impacts corporate policy. A company that protects its brand as fiercely as Disney is going to be more proactive about these things than reactive.

Everyone who wanted to spoke their mind. That’s how it’s supposed to work. And like Thermal was hinting at, she got another job shortly after, did a few interviews to elaborate her position on the topic, so she wasn’t really cancelled anyway.

Couldn’t agree more.

 

[d4m10n]

Your definition doesn’t say anything about merely “making an effort”.

Withdrawing support from any given person or group requires conscious effort. In the case of Kroger, people who used to shop there would have to consciously change their shopping habits in order to follow the advice of any given moral entrepreneur^WP who made the effort to publicly extol the notion that we ought to #BoycottKroger in the first place.

ETA: Even in the case of a public shaming which is limited to Twitter, people have to make the effort to pile-on to the hashtag or some other nexus for gathering supporters to the cause. Maybe only a handful of people take up the banner, but those who do are (for good or ill) performing the culture of cancellation.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

The thing that was worrying about Gina Carano, is that a lot of the pressure to cancel her came about just because she was unapologetically proud of her political affiliation, and other people of the opposite party did not agree and put pressure to remove her.

<snip>

Evidence for this assertion, please?

You know the motives of everyone who weighed in?

Many people purport their objections have a different reason than your assertion. Are they liars? Have they fallen for some self-deception and you know better?

 

[johnny karate]

Withdrawing support from any given person or group requires conscious effort. In the case of Kroger, people who used to shop there would have to consciously change their shopping habits in order to follow the advice of any given moral entrepreneur^WP who made the effort to publicly extol the notion that we ought to #BoycottKroger in the first place.

ETA: Even in the case of a public shaming which is limited to Twitter, people have to make the effort to pile-on to the hashtag or some other nexus for gathering supporters to the cause. Maybe only a handful of people take up the banner, but those who do are (for good or ill) performing the culture of cancellation.

Yes, we’re all up to speed on the horror unleashed upon society after a few people on Twitter said they won’t shop at Kroger anymore.

So was Kroger Andy cancelled or wasn’t he?

 

[d4m10n]

So was Kroger Andy cancelled or wasn’t he?

Did people withdraw support from Kroger in an effort to withdraw support from him? (Yes.)

 

[johnny karate]

Did people withdraw support from Kroger in an effort to withdraw support from him? (Yes.)

So you’re saying he was “cancelled”?

 

[d4m10n]

So you’re saying he was “cancelled”?

What Danielle and several of her Twitter followers did was to publicly shame Kroger/Andy and thereby encourage people to withdraw support from or otherwise sanction them. I call this social phenomenon "cancel culture" but you are free to call it what you will.

ETA: What PZ Myers and several of his Twitter followers did was to publicly shame Gelato Mio/Andy and thereby encourage people to withdraw support from or otherwise sanction them. I call this social phenomenon "cancel culture" but (again) you are free to call it what you will.

 

[Cavemonster]

Cancel culture, once again, is when people make an effort to publicly shame and sanction an individual or group. You are free to deny that this happened to Kroger & Andy if you so choose, but I doubt you'll convince anyone who actually saw what went down.

ETA: You are also free, of course, to provide an alternative definition to try to scope what we're talking about here. (I do not expect this to happen.)

So just to be clear, by this definition, Christians burning Harry Potter, Trump tweeting about Kapernick, public discussions critical of the Catholic Church's role in covering up child abuse, public outcry about inhumane working conditions in Nike sweatshops, the events described in the book "The scarlet letter".

These are all "cancel culture".?

 

[johnny karate]

What Danielle and several of her Twitter followers did was to publicly shame Kroger/Andy and thereby encourage people to withdraw support from or otherwise sanction them. I call this social phenomenon "cancel culture" but you are free to call it what you will.

ETA: What PZ Myers and several of his Twitter followers did was to publicly shame Gelato Mio/Andy and thereby encourage people to withdraw support from or otherwise sanction them. I call this social phenomenon "cancel culture" but (again) you are free to call it what you will.

Was he “cancelled”? Yes or no.

Because the definition that you provided clearly stipulates that a “cancelling” must take place for it to be “cancel culture”:

Cancel culture refers to the popular practice of withdrawing support for (canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive. Cancel culture is generally discussed as being performed on social media in the form of group shaming.

 

[HoverBoarder]

The thing that was worrying about Gina Carano, is that a lot of the pressure to cancel her came about just because she was unapologetically proud of her political affiliation, and other people of the opposite party did not agree and put pressure to remove her.

But why do you see that as a problem?

The lack of meaningful debate and interaction between the different sides is one of the largest problems facing our country right now. When prominent conservatives are banned from major social media sites, millions of followers leave with them.

The alternatives that they flee to largely allow violent content, and do not provide fact checking. Some news articles have noted how people have gone from major social media sites with Q-anon conspiracies, to places like Telegram where there is straight up bomb making discussions and Right Wing radical extremists looking to convert newly arriving conservatives to much more extremist causes.

Right now the GOP is going through a crisis, they are getting entrenched in bigger and bigger lies. It is hard to get clean, but they can either face the harsh light of reality or go deeper down the hole of conspiracies and never have to admit that they were wrong.

Cancel culture largely puts some of the most egregious figures out of sight and out of mind, but it also has the potential to make the problems that we face from Right Wing extremists far worse. Also, the less communication there is from either side, the less we spend in questioning our own policies in order to make them stronger and more robust.

 

[HoverBoarder]

Evidence for this assertion, please?

You know the motives of everyone who weighed in?

Many people purport their objections have a different reason than your assertion. Are they liars? Have they fallen for some self-deception and you know better?

It was a reasonable ascertain based on news articles, the content of her tweets, and an interview that I watched with her focusing on her cancelation.

That is my opinion based on what I know, and other people are of course entitled to their own. If they have evidence that shows otherwise, I am of course open to changing my mind.

Gina came off as genuine, while not especially bright. Certainly none of her motivations seemed malicious, just pretty deeply misguided.

 

[johnny karate]

It was a reasonable ascertain based on news articles, the content of her tweets, and an interview that I watched with her focusing on her cancelation.

That is my opinion based on what I know, and other people are of course entitled to their own. If they have evidence that shows otherwise, I am of course open to changing my mind.

Gina came off as genuine, while not especially bright. Certainly none of her motivations seemed malicious, just pretty deeply misguided.

Great, what about the alleged “pressure to remove her” as opposed to Disney deciding of their own volition to no longer work with her?

Any evidence for that assertion?

 

[Dr. Keith]

Cancel Culture IRL: Nobody has posted about me in this thread for days. Why did you all pull my support?

 

[johnny karate]

Cancel Culture IRL: Nobody has posted about me in this thread for days. Why did you all pull my support?

There was a lot of pressure being applied to not mention you. We were coerced into this decision.

 

[Dr. Keith]

There was a lot of pressure being applied to not mention you. We were coerced into this decision.

Nuclear pressure, I would have to assume.

 

[d4m10n]

Was he “cancelled”? Yes or no.

Yes, or no, depending on what you take the word to mean. Do you happen to have a working definition which you prefer?

(I don't recall making an attempt to define "cancelled" specifically; I was focusing on the meaning of the phrase "cancel culture" upthread.)

 

[d4m10n]

So just to be clear, by this definition, Christians burning Harry Potter, Trump tweeting about [Kaepernick], public discussions critical of the Catholic Church's role in covering up child abuse, public outcry about inhumane working conditions in Nike sweatshops, the events described in the book "The scarlet letter".

Let's go through them one by one.

1. Were the people burning Rowling books encouraging others to withdraw support from Rowling and her publisher?
   
2. Was Trump encouraging NFL owners to fire players who dared to protest?
   
3. Were people critical of the Catholic Church encouraging parishioners to withdraw support from the organization?
   
4. Were the people condemning Nike encouraging customers to stop buying their merch?

I'm pretty sure the answer to all of these is "yes" though there were probably protestors who wanted the last two organizations to rapidly alter how they treat vulnerable people, rather than agitating for them to dissolve entirely.

These are all "cancel culture".?

I'd say so, and (IMO) it's not even a close call.

(Left off the fictional example, since I've not read it in a few decades.)

 

[johnny karate]

Yes, or no, depending on what you take the word to mean. Do you happen to have a working definition which you prefer?

(I don't recall making an attempt to define "cancelled" specifically; I was focusing on the meaning of the phrase "cancel culture" upthread.)

These aren’t my terms to define. They’re yours.

And it feels like you want to have your cake and eat it too: You need the definitions to establish that we’re discussing something tangible, but you want to keep the discussion surrounding them as nebulous as possible to encompass everything you decide to label “cancel culture”.

Seems like an odd approach for something that is such a distinct and clearly defined problem, and of course, leaves you in the convenient position of being the arbiter of what qualifies.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

It was a reasonable ascertain based on news articles, the content of her tweets, and an interview that I watched with her focusing on her cancelation.



That is my opinion based on what I know, and other people are of course entitled to their own. If they have evidence that shows otherwise, I am of course open to changing my mind.



Gina came off as genuine, while not especially bright. Certainly none of her motivations seemed malicious, just pretty deeply misguided.

You didn't prove anything about the underlying motives of a single person who participated.

I'm going to have to provisionally assign your claim: hogwash.

 

[Stout]

The lack of meaningful debate and interaction between the different sides is one of the largest problems facing our country right now. When prominent conservatives are banned from major social media sites, millions of followers leave with them.

The alternatives that they flee to largely allow violent content, and do not provide fact checking. Some news articles have noted how people have gone from major social media sites with Q-anon conspiracies, to places like Telegram where there is straight up bomb making discussions and Right Wing radical extremists looking to convert newly arriving conservatives to much more extremist causes.

Right now the GOP is going through a crisis, they are getting entrenched in bigger and bigger lies. It is hard to get clean, but they can either face the harsh light of reality or go deeper down the hole of conspiracies and never have to admit that they were wrong.

Cancel culture largely puts some of the most egregious figures out of sight and out of mind, but it also has the potential to make the problems that we face from Right Wing extremists far worse. Also, the less communication there is from either side, the less we spend in questioning our own policies in order to make them stronger and more robust.

That's interesting, I hadn't thought of that.