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Cancel culture IRL

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johnny karate said:
What happened doesn’t meet the definition of “cancel culture” that you provided and yet you still referred to it as “cancel culture”.
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"Cancel culture refers to the popular practice of withdrawing support for (canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive."

Was Danielle attempting to get people to withdraw support from Andy and/or Kroger while publicly taking offense?

(HINT: YES)

The only marginal aspect here is that Andy wasn't a public figure until he was publicly shamed, but that's true of many other examples like Sacco and Richards.
 
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Distracted1 said:
Really.
Seems to me like she was mocking Democrats.
Just as bad in the estimation of some, I guess.
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How about comparing people being upset with her behavior to the holocaust?

Is minimization of genocide "innocuous?"

But really, this "if I can use other words that (very loosely) describe the behavior while neatly skirting around the part that is bad, the bad thing is transmuted into good (or at least neutral)" stuff is really insulting to have tossed up in furtherance of a "you're all taking this too seriously" handwave.
 
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Delphic Oracle said:
How about comparing people being upset with her behavior to the holocaust?

Is minimization of genocide "innocuous?"

But really, this "if I can use other words that (very loosely) describe the behavior while neatly skirting around the part that is bad, the bad thing is transmuted into good (or at least neutral)" stuff is really insulting to have tossed up in furtherance of a "you're all taking this too seriously" handwave.
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Called a "Godwin" actually very,very common. So common if fact that it even has a name, and a long history of use by just about every human being alive at some time or another.

Not upsetting to most unless they are primed to get upset.
 
Distracted1 said:
Called a "Godwin" actually very,very common. So common if fact that it even has a name, and a long history of use by just about every human being alive at some time or another.

Not upsetting to most unless they are primed to get upset.
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No, she did not "invoke Godwin."

That has a whole different meaning.

You're just using the same tactic over and over, which amounts to "but what if I call this thing something else, then it is OK, right?"
 
How about just admitting that Carano was fired for being an asshat? The company that she was fired from had every right to do it as her asshattery reflected poorly on them. Her role in that company's show gave her fame and a platform. That she used that platform to spout asshattery is on her.

From the sounds of it she is happy to have been dumped. She us now getting her own show funded by that powerhouse of entertainment, Ben Shitpiro.
 
I think this evaluation of Carano's comment is barking up the wrong tree for a few reasons.

1) Comparing it to "Godwins" and other things you might find in this forum is missing the context a bit. There are plenty of things said on this forum that are easy to shrug off that would probably get you fired if you posted them in your public facing twitter account that had a lot of followers largely because of your very public role in a project your boss had invested millions in, that was part of a larger effort worth billions.

Just like there are plenty of things you can say in a bar with your buddies that you shouldn't say in a job interview. The idea that we're evaluating the "badness" of the tweet in a vacuum just misses that context.

I'm guessing most people in this forum have posted things that your boss would not want you saying out loud while their clients were listening to you and you were wearing the company name tag.

2) We established above, that it wasn't really that single tweet out of the blue. There was a pattern of tweets on controversial subjects. She had taken heat on twitter already for earlier tweets.

It's fairly reasonable to guess that someone from Disney had communicated some sort of "Knock it off". And that last tweet can be read as a "You can't tell me what to do".

I teach kids. If I have to tell a kid to stop disrupting class and he responds by yelling out "This is oppression! Just like the Nazis did to the Jews!" That kid is probably in trouble. Not entirely because their last comment was punishable in itself, but it's place in the overall interaction makes it the whiny straw that breaks the camel's back.

3) It kinda doesn't matter if we can agree that Carano's behavior was or wasn't bad enough or extreme enough to justify Disney deciding not to hire her for next season.
Through history, companies have always made hiring decisions based on avoiding the kind of press they didn't want.

Disney will also fire one of their park performers if they go on social media and say they "play" a particular character instead of Disney's mandated phrasing of "I'm friends with Ariel". You work for the mouse, they're super strinct about how your public speech reflects on them. In a vacuum, not saying "friends with" doesn't seem like it's a crime for which termination is the right punishment. But they've always been like that. Disney got where they are by policing public image pretty ruthlessly. That's not cancel culture, that's Mouse culture.
 
d4m10n said:
"Cancel culture refers to the popular practice of withdrawing support for (canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive."

Was Danielle attempting to get people to withdraw support from Andy and/or Kroger while publicly taking offense?

(HINT: YES)
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You didn’t say it was attempted “cancel culture”. You said it was “cancel culture”. You called one person posting something negative about another person “cancel culture”.

You just continue to prove that not even “cancel culture” critics know what “cancel culture” is. It’s just a label they slap on whatever they feel like slapping it on.

Kroger Andy = “Cancel Culture”.
Gina Carano = “Cancel Culture”.
Mr. Potato Head = “Cancel Culture”.
I stubbed my toe = “Cancel Culture”.

The only marginal aspect here is that Andy wasn't a public figure until he was publicly shamed, but that's true of many other examples like Sacco and Richards.
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Yeah, I actually gave you a pass on this. But no, it’s not marginal.

Again, you pretend “cancel culture” is clearly defined and yet your first example in this thread - the reason you started this thread - doesn’t meet your own definition.
 
Distracted1 said:
Really.
Seems to me like she was mocking Democrats.
Just as bad in the estimation of some, I guess.
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Yes, she mocked them for wearing masks during a deadly pandemic.

Sadly, your defense of anti-mask-ism is not the least bit surprising.
 
Distracted1 said:
Called a "Godwin" actually very,very common. So common if fact that it even has a name, and a long history of use by just about every human being alive at some time or another.

Not upsetting to most unless they are primed to get upset.
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Unfortunately, you don’t get to decide for anyone else what behavior they find objectionable enough to stop associating with the person exhibiting the behavior.

And someone who defends anti-mask-ism and downplays right domestic terrorism probably has a much higher threshold for objectionable behavior than a normal person.
 
Cavemonster said:
I think this evaluation of Carano's comment is barking up the wrong tree for a few reasons.

1) Comparing it to "Godwins" and other things you might find in this forum is missing the context a bit. There are plenty of things said on this forum that are easy to shrug off that would probably get you fired if you posted them in your public facing twitter account that had a lot of followers largely because of your very public role in a project your boss had invested millions in, that was part of a larger effort worth billions.

Just like there are plenty of things you can say in a bar with your buddies that you shouldn't say in a job interview. The idea that we're evaluating the "badness" of the tweet in a vacuum just misses that context.

I'm guessing most people in this forum have posted things that your boss would not want you saying out loud while their clients were listening to you and you were wearing the company name tag.

2) We established above, that it wasn't really that single tweet out of the blue. There was a pattern of tweets on controversial subjects. She had taken heat on twitter already for earlier tweets.

It's fairly reasonable to guess that someone from Disney had communicated some sort of "Knock it off". And that last tweet can be read as a "You can't tell me what to do".

I teach kids. If I have to tell a kid to stop disrupting class and he responds by yelling out "This is oppression! Just like the Nazis did to the Jews!" That kid is probably in trouble. Not entirely because their last comment was punishable in itself, but it's place in the overall interaction makes it the whiny straw that breaks the camel's back.

3) It kinda doesn't matter if we can agree that Carano's behavior was or wasn't bad enough or extreme enough to justify Disney deciding not to hire her for next season.
Through history, companies have always made hiring decisions based on avoiding the kind of press they didn't want.

Disney will also fire one of their park performers if they go on social media and say they "play" a particular character instead of Disney's mandated phrasing of "I'm friends with Ariel". You work for the mouse, they're super strinct about how your public speech reflects on them. In a vacuum, not saying "friends with" doesn't seem like it's a crime for which termination is the right punishment. But they've always been like that. Disney got where they are by policing public image pretty ruthlessly. That's not cancel culture, that's Mouse culture.
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All valid points, but I would argue that what Carano ran afoul of was “adult culture”.
 
johnny karate said:
You didn’t say it was attempted “cancel culture”.
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To be clear, any attempted cancellation is an example of cancel culture. People who run apologia for (attempted) cancellations may also be propagating a culture of cancellation.

Think about this for a moment, I implore you. Do you really believe the phrase rape cultureWP refers solely to completed rapes or to a vastly broader range of behavior? (If you're confused, check the wiki.)
johnny karate said:
As her defender, shouldn’t you already know the specifics?
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I do (as it happens) but I'm not saying what she did was defensible.
 
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d4m10n said:
To be clear, any attempted cancellation is an example of cancel culture. People who run apologia for (attempted) cancellations may also be propagating a culture of cancellation.
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Not according to the definition that you provided.

So once again, “cancel culture” is just what you say it is. In the case of Kroger Andy, it’s one person saying something mean about another person on Twitter.

Think about this for a moment, I implore you. Do you really believe the phrase rape cultureWP refers solely to completed rapes or to a vastly broader range of behavior? (If you're confused, check the wiki.)
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I guess that would depend on the definition of “rape culture” provided by the person claiming something was “rape culture”.

I do (as it happens) but I'm not saying what she did was defensible.
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Then I’m not sure why you’re asking for specifics if you already know them.

I’m also not sure why you think you should be allowed to dictate to other people how they should be allowed to respond to behavior you acknowledge is indefensible.
 
johnny karate said:
No, the results are the same. If a letter-writing campaign lead to a boycott of a business 50 years ago, that boycott is no different than the one that would occur today as a result of a social media campaign. A boycott is a boycott. It’s not like social media makes it a “nuclear” boycott.
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Ask the people decrying cancel culture what they think about the Dixie Chicks and Jane Fonda. And if they're very old ask about Ingrid Bergman. I bet you'll find they were fine with cancellation on those people.
 
Distracted1 said:
If you asked the question yourself, you would probably find your predjudice invalidated.
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I did, those are the three examples I asked my mom about. She saw nothing dissonant about still being mad at the Dixie Chicks and Jane Fonda, but did agree that Granny was silly to mind about Ingrid Bergman.
 
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