Electric Vehicles

[Disbelief]

And just for the record, while I've been naysaying a lot I am very, very pro-EV.

There's about a 90% chance my next car is going to be a Chevy Volt. They low-mid mileage ones are getting pretty cheap and the ~50 mile all electric range would handle all of my routine day to day commuting/errands so I could remove my dependence on fossil fuels for daily driving which I agree is very important, but the range extending gasoline engine (420 mile range, refuellable as any normal gasoline car) would offset my evacuations concerns and make the scenarios I mentioned where I'm at one job site and have to handle an emergency trouble call at another one and can't futz around with range or charging a non-issue.

I had one for 3 years and really liked it, plus I know a couple of people with them now. Had to fill up every 4 months or so.

 

[jadebox]

They're an ideal time, but making it work would require having chargers were the vehicle will be sitting, with the cables to connect them to a power source, and power sources capable of handling the increased load compared to present electricity usage.

I don't know how much of an increase this means for our consumption of electricity, but I do know the number of chargers your plan needs is many times the number of gas pumps we have out there now. Pretty much every single place where anybody works would need more of them than the number of pumps at any gas station, and even that's ignoring the ones that would be at people's homes.

The times when the cars are sitting are good opportunities for charging, but the cars don't have to plugged in all of the time (or every time) that they are sitting.

I charge mine while parked in my driveway after work. Even though mine is an older model with limited range, I can miss charging it one day and still have enough range for the next day.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Maybe my biggest problem is, looking at new electric cars, I don't see one I want.

I like driving my 1990s Mazda MX-5. We also have a little Fiat Panda, so I already have a more frugal option that will do the job even though it wouldn't be my first choice. Each of these cars cost me 3 grand used, and I do my own servicing. New cars are very expensive compared to that. New electric cars are even more expensive.

If Mazda made an electric MX-5 and could shoehorn in the range extender they've been hinting at for several years, yes, I would buy that. Not because it would ever save me money but because I would want it.

 

[Dr. Keith]

And just for the record, while I've been naysaying a lot I am very, very pro-EV.

There's about a 90% chance my next car is going to be a Chevy Volt. They low-mid mileage ones are getting pretty cheap and the ~50 mile all electric range would handle all of my routine day to day commuting/errands so I could remove my dependence on fossil fuels for daily driving which I agree is very important, but the range extending gasoline engine (420 mile range, refuellable as any normal gasoline car) would offset my evacuations concerns and make the scenarios I mentioned where I'm at one job site and have to handle an emergency trouble call at another one and can't futz around with range or charging a non-issue.

And just for the record, while I've been naysaying a lot I am very, very pro JoeMorgue.

 

[acbytesla]

And just for the record, while I've been naysaying a lot I am very, very pro-EV.

There's about a 90% chance my next car is going to be a Chevy Volt. They low-mid mileage ones are getting pretty cheap and the ~50 mile all electric range would handle all of my routine day to day commuting/errands so I could remove my dependence on fossil fuels for daily driving which I agree is very important, but the range extending gasoline engine (420 mile range, refuellable as any normal gasoline car) would offset my evacuations concerns and make the scenarios I mentioned where I'm at one job site and have to handle an emergency trouble call at another one and can't futz around with range or charging a non-issue.

And just for the record, while I've been naysaying a lot I am very, very pro JoeMorgue.

I'm anti-Joe.

 

[gnome]

I am also anti-Joe.

Down with Joes!

JoeMorgue, Joe DiMaggio, whoever that "Joe" is in the Jimi Hendrix song, Joe Mantegna. I refuse to eat at Joe's. All of 'em.

 

[crescent]

And just for the record, while I've been naysaying a lot I am very, very pro-EV.

There's about a 90% chance my next car is going to be a Chevy Volt. They low-mid mileage ones are getting pretty cheap and the ~50 mile all electric range would handle all of my routine day to day commuting/errands so I could remove my dependence on fossil fuels for daily driving which I agree is very important, but the range extending gasoline engine (420 mile range, refuellable as any normal gasoline car) would offset my evacuations concerns and make the scenarios I mentioned where I'm at one job site and have to handle an emergency trouble call at another one and can't futz around with range or charging a non-issue.

I had one for 3 years and really liked it, plus I know a couple of people with them now. Had to fill up every 4 months or so.

I'm looking at maybe getting a chevy Volt as well. I'm disappointed that they stopped making them, it seemed like a good transitional technology. They say that when people get plug-in hybrids, they are often surprised at how rarely they need to get gas, this ends up making them more accepting of all-electric. I would get a Volt instead of an all electric because at this point I can't afford an all-electric that still has the range I would need to get to my parent's house and back or do the home-to-work-to school-to home routine I do once a week, but I would be able to go electric-only the great-majority of the time. It's really more of a cost-issue than technology.

That said, when I do get an all-electric (when, not if...) it will almost certainly be used.

I'm also looking at the Nissan Leaf. Good car, but one needs to do the homework before buying, which is time-consuming, needing to look at each car individually because the used-car sales websites usually don't provide the relevant sort of EV-specific information. Leafs come with different-sized battery packs (30, 40, or 62 kw), often not included on the website. Then, due diligence would be required to look at the number of bars remaining on the battery - that never seems to be on the websites.

For example, this one: 2016 Nissan LEAF
I assume it has the 30kw battery pack, which typically gives a 109 mile range - but the website is not clear about that. That's a bit short for me - it would cover the usual commute, but would be cutting it very thin on the evenings (once a week) when I go from work to night school and then home. A 40 kw battery would do it, but those still seem uncommon on the used car market and are not any cheaper than used Volts.

A person looking for a used Leaf would need to do the homework and then might still need to go look at each car individually just to see what kw battery is has and how many bars left on it - the used-car industry's websites are still mostly very far behind the curve as regards EVs.



(ETA: Also, I get annoyed with describing the Nissan Leaf in plural. It is a parking lot full of Leafs or a parking lot full of Leaves?)

 

[acbytesla]

I'm looking at maybe getting a chevy Volt as well. I'm disappointed that they stopped making them, it seemed like a good transitional technology. They say that when people get plug-in hybrids, they are often surprised at how rarely they need to get gas, this ends up making them more accepting of all-electric. I would get a Volt instead of an all electric because at this point I can't afford an all-electric that still has the range I would need to get to my parent's house and back or do the home-to-work-to school-to home routine I do once a week, but I would be able to go electric-only the great-majority of the time. It's really more of a cost-issue than technology.

That said, when I do get an all-electric (when, not if...) it will almost certainly be used.

I'm also looking at the Nissan Leaf. Good car, but one beeds to do the homework before buying, which is time-consuming, needing to look at each car individually because the used-car sales websites usually don't provide the relevant sort of EV-specific information. Leafs come with different-sized battery packs (30, 40, or 62 kw), often not included on the website. Then, due diligence would be required to look at the number of bars remaining on the battery - that never seems to be on the websites.

For example, this one: 2016 Nissan LEAF
I assume it has the 30kw battery pack, which typically gives a 109 mile range. That's a bit short for me - it would cover the usual commute, but would be cutting it very thin on the evenings (once a week) when I go from work to night school and then home. A 40 kw battery would do it, but those still seem uncommon on the used car market and are not any cheaper than used Volts.

A person looking for a used Leaf would need to do the homework and then might still need to go look at each car individually just to see what kw battery is has and how many bars left on it - the used-car industry's websites are still mostly very far behind the curve as regards EVs.

The biggest complaint I've ever heard about the Chevy Volt is the size of the A pillar. It kind of creates a blind spot.

Also the battery pack is larger on the newer models.

 

[Dr. Keith]

I am also anti-Joe.

Down with Joes!

JoeMorgue, Joe DiMaggio, whoever that "Joe" is in the Jimi Hendrix song, Joe Mantegna. I refuse to eat at Joe's. All of 'em.

Despite my above mentioned pro JoeMorgue position, Hey Joe is my favorite Joe. Where is he going with that gun in his hand?

I used to teach rock climbing and when you are top belaying a new climber it is often very boring, slow and tedious. Also, they tend to be nervous. So, you develop banter to help yourself and to help them. But mainly to help yourself. All of that banter starts with "What's your name?" And every time that name was Joe it went to "Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?"

It often didn't get much past that since the person on the end of the rope was too nervous to really joke around or too young to know the song or too old to admit they knew the song or some combination of those things. But one time a kid who was not at all a good climber latched on like a tiger to that song and we spoke the whole song back and forth to each other as he struggled up that rock face. That kid has been my hero ever since. If only I could remember his name.

 

[Disbelief]

I'm looking at maybe getting a chevy Volt as well. I'm disappointed that they stopped making them, it seemed like a good transitional technology. They say that when people get plug-in hybrids, they are often surprised at how rarely they need to get gas, this ends up making them more accepting of all-electric. I would get a Volt instead of an all electric because at this point I can't afford an all-electric that still has the range I would need to get to my parent's house and back or do the home-to-work-to school-to home routine I do once a week, but I would be able to go electric-only the great-majority of the time. It's really more of a cost-issue than technology.

That said, when I do get an all-electric (when, not if...) it will almost certainly be used.

I'm also looking at the Nissan Leaf. Good car, but one needs to do the homework before buying, which is time-consuming, needing to look at each car individually because the used-car sales websites usually don't provide the relevant sort of EV-specific information. Leafs come with different-sized battery packs (30, 40, or 62 kw), often not included on the website. Then, due diligence would be required to look at the number of bars remaining on the battery - that never seems to be on the websites.

For example, this one: 2016 Nissan LEAF
I assume it has the 30kw battery pack, which typically gives a 109 mile range - but the website is not clear about that. That's a bit short for me - it would cover the usual commute, but would be cutting it very thin on the evenings (once a week) when I go from work to night school and then home. A 40 kw battery would do it, but those still seem uncommon on the used car market and are not any cheaper than used Volts.

A person looking for a used Leaf would need to do the homework and then might still need to go look at each car individually just to see what kw battery is has and how many bars left on it - the used-car industry's websites are still mostly very far behind the curve as regards EVs.



(ETA: Also, I get annoyed with describing the Nissan Leaf in plural. It is a parking lot full of Leafs or a parking lot full of Leaves?)

I've said it in this thread, but want to reiterate that I work in the plant that makes the Chevy Bolt. There are probably going to be more used ones available as leases run out, plus they are coming out with a refresh and a slightly larger one this year. After 100,000 miles, the battery looks like it still has 92-95% of the original range, so used ones should still be pretty good.

 

[crescent]

I've said it in this thread, but want to reiterate that I work in the plant that makes the Chevy Bolt. There are probably going to be more used ones available as leases run out, plus they are coming out with a refresh and a slightly larger one this year. After 100,000 miles, the battery looks like it still has 92-95% of the original range, so used ones should still be pretty good.

Thanks - I'll keep that in mind. My old Malibu is on its last legs and has probably only held out so long because I can work from home during Covid issues time.

Another month or two (or three or four, who knows?) and I'll be back to commuting. I'm not sure how long the Chevy will last, as the head gasket leaks (or so they claim) and that is a big enough repair to probably just give up and trade in the car for a few bucks (we already spent a boatload of money on the oxygen sensor and an issue with the gas tank). It leaks oil all over, I tried putting in the stop-leak goop but then the epidemic got rolling and I largely stopped driving any great distances in that car. I'll try it again once I'm back using the car most days.

Just for comparison, how often do the head gaskets and oxygen sensors go out on the Bolts?

 

[Fast Eddie B]

I think anyone considering a used Volt as a PHEV should at least consider a used Honda Clarity. The Clarity has a much larger interior and is still in production, at least for now. When I was motivated to buy in 2018, I first drove a Volt and it was very nice, but rather compact. The Clarity feels, drives and handles more like a full-sized sedan, something like an Accord, and the mix of EV and hybrid seems very well thought out.

As an aside, and showing off, a photo of ours I took at sunset on the Cherohala Skyway is currently featured on the splash page of the Facebook Clarity Owner’s Group.

 

[dirtywick]

I’ve seen that same sun before

 

[bruto]

I also, despite some nay saying, am becoming a fan of electric cars, though I think it will be some time before I get one here.

When and if I do, it will probably still not be the only car in the stable, because there are still emergencies and the like, where one needs a car at odd times, or for unusually long times, and can't work easily around charging.

One other thing, which perhaps Disbelief can elaborate on, has to do with climate. Here in Vermont, we can expect to need the heat on in some degree a large part of the year, and in this season, essentially all on all the time, plus defrosting at both ends. It's also dark a lot, and we need lights a lot. I suspect this would have an effect on both range and battery life. Can you give an idea of how much?

 

[Delvo]

What winter made me think of about this is putting charging devices where I work or at most other small parking lots. At the end of each parking spot, where the pavement meets the grass, is the obvious place to put it. It's also where snow gets piled up.

 

[novaphile]

What winter made me think of about this is putting charging devices where I work or at most other small parking lots. At the end of each parking spot, where the pavement meets the grass, is the obvious place to put it. It's also where snow gets piled up.

Street lights are the obvious place for charging points. (The electricity is already there)

Pull up next to a street light, plug in and RFID your credit card.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Street lights are the obvious place for charging points. (The electricity is already there)

Pull up next to a street light, plug in and RFID your credit card.

Would the capacity and voltage be correct? Tesla chargers are about 70 kW, that could be 500 times the power of some modern street lights.

 

[GlennB]

Street lights are the obvious place for charging points. (The electricity is already there)

Pull up next to a street light, plug in and RFID your credit card.

And hope that people who are not charging don't park there. The UK has a notorious problem with people - sometimes with no excuse - occupying 'blue badge' (disabled) parking spots, so getting people to respect EV charging places might will be an issue.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

Street lights are the obvious place for charging points. (The electricity is already there)

Pull up next to a street light, plug in and RFID your credit card.

Now I wonder how much extra current the wiring to a typical streetlight could safely supply.

Or indeed efficiently supply. I was reading an article recently on how electrical installations which regularly use a significant proportion of their rated current can waste enough power in just warming wire that within a few years it would have been more cost effective to spend the extra to install heavier gauge wire in the first place.

 

[Shalamar]

I also, despite some nay saying, am becoming a fan of electric cars, though I think it will be some time before I get one here.

When and if I do, it will probably still not be the only car in the stable, because there are still emergencies and the like, where one needs a car at odd times, or for unusually long times, and can't work easily around charging.

One other thing, which perhaps Disbelief can elaborate on, has to do with climate. Here in Vermont, we can expect to need the heat on in some degree a large part of the year, and in this season, essentially all on all the time, plus defrosting at both ends. It's also dark a lot, and we need lights a lot. I suspect this would have an effect on both range and battery life. Can you give an idea of how much?

Cold weather is (currently) the bane of EVs. I've seen reports of anywhere from 20%-50% loss. You can somewhat mitigate the loss by 'pre-heating' the car, and keeping it in a garage.