Ed Corona Virus Conspiracy Theories....

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smartcooky said:
I have already decided that I'm wasting my time attempting any sort of good faith debate with these two.
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While that may be the case (says he desperately trying not to sound in anyway personal), it is still worth remembering the "play to the galleries" ploy, as we may have some drive-bys or folk who do not know how inaccurate some of the claims are. I know I'm pernickety, but there are a couple of those claims I am just not able to let pass unchallenged.
 
Tom Palven said:
Here's one tiny sample, but you can do your own search of European medical associations and elsewhere that oppose the war on Covid measures advocated by Pope Anthony (Fauci).
https://www.news.com.au/world/coron...s/news-story/f2188f2aebff1b7b291b297731c3da74
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LOL. A "tiny sample" and an invitation to dO YoUr oWn rEsEaRcH. Marvellous.

And it's heartening to see your tiny sample anti-lockdown story doesn't contain anything suggesting the Covid-19 pandemic is anything other than entirely real, but what it does do is push for the development of "better systems" than lockdowns (where "better" means less economically damaging rather than more effective).

It manages not to mention vaccines. So - newsflash - we have vaccines now, and they're a much better system of control. As soon as they do their work, lockdowns are over.

Instead of vaccination, the article pushes the "Great Barrington Declaration". That was a campaign pushing an alternative strategy of protecting vulnerable people and letting everyone else just catch the virus and (mostly) get on with life until herd immunity ended the pandemic. It doesn't add up. Since it looks like you have already fled the thread I can't really be bothered to Fisk the argument but here's a fairly nice point by point demolition if you care about it:

https://www.covidfaq.co/Claim-The-G...-to-lockdown-0781e7d968d1472aac6981edd980edba


PS America is not the whole world. Amazing as it may be to you, the rest of the planet does not hang on Anthony Fauci's every word. I get that you demonise him because he sensibly advocates lockdowns, but he's not the God-emperor of world medicine.
 
Tom Palven said:
I don't think that I made a "gotcha claim," or, at least I don't think that I tried to.
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This perhaps becomes clearer in hindsight. (Tom wrote that victims who only lost hours or days of life to Covid-19 were close to death anyway, but the wording seemed to lead people to think the claim was that this small loss was typical, whereas the average loss of lifetime seems to be more than a decade.)

If Tom was just copy/pasting someone else's weasel words, he may well have mistakenly imagined he was making a different claim from what it actually said.
 
Tom Palven said:
No. I would prefer data gathered under personal supervision.
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Presumably yours? If so, whew, you've got some work to do. Your "GIGO theory"- which appears to be that the pandemic's seriousness is overstated by, at least in part, counting as Covid deaths some that were not properly attributable at all to Covid- needs some work to not be GIGO itself, wouldn't you agree? In support of your theory, you've cited- one case. One- the motorcycle death in Florida. Now it seems to me that to make a case that there is any prevalent, or even meaningful, incidence of fraud in the counting of Covid deaths, you're going to need more than one. Just in the U.S., there have been 500,000 deaths; being generous, I would say that you need to show that at least one percent of those cases were over-egging the pudding. So you need another 4,999 cases.

So, off you go- if you want the data gathered under personal supervision, you've set yourself quite the task.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
So instead of actually dealing with the points people make you decide to preach and browbeat us with your false accusations of being closed minded? Brilliant. You really are a failure aren't you?

Why not answer a post like the following:



Rather than bleating on and beating the same rhetorical drum of falsehood?
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Why are you continuing to avoid my questions Caroline?
 
Carrot Flower King said:
While that may be the case (says he desperately trying not to sound in anyway personal), it is still worth remembering the "play to the galleries" ploy, as we may have some drive-bys or folk who do not know how inaccurate some of the claims are. I know I'm pernickety, but there are a couple of those claims I am just not able to let pass unchallenged.
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I have decided not to personally engage, but when they are quoted, if I agree with the poster quoting them, I may chime in and support that poster. That is as far as I am prepared go.
 
Note for Caroline: it can be very frustrating to be on the receiving end of so much criticism, but if you actually want to stay participating, either to enjoy the fray, to try to sell your point of view, or to learn from others, please take care.

The arts of both effective argument and polite disparagement benefit from some practice. Take your time.
 
When a supposed conspiracy involves so many people -- maybe in the millions worldwide -- and when the scientific evidence is so clear, and people still fervently latch on... It demonstrates how strong the allure is to belong to a counter-culture that confidently sees through it all, reveling in imaginary superiority, finding a purpose in seeing The Truth.
 
varwoche said:
When a supposed conspiracy involves so many people -- maybe in the millions worldwide -- and when the scientific evidence is so clear, and people still fervently latch on... It demonstrates how strong the allure is to belong to a counter-culture that confidently sees through it all, reveling in imaginary superiority, finding a purpose in seeing The Truth.
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Once I started looking at conspiracy theories as gnostic cults, everything fell into place.

I've noticed a curious reluctance, among adherents of many CTs, to acknowledge the implications of a global conspiracy involving many millions, if not hundreds of millions of people. It seems that they've latched on to their CT prior to thinking it through to that implication (which is a bit sad, considering that it should take a couple of minutes of rumination at most to reach that point). But this confirms that the appeal of the CT isn't the Truth® - it's the feeling if superiority they acquire from a belief that they are among the very few too smart to be fooled.

One of the few times recently that I've seen a conspiracy theorist embrace the global conspiracy idea was a QAnon follower who, echoing the Satanic Panic of the '80s, insisted that pedophiles were running virtually every school and police station in the U.S.

Yet the unwillingness of so many to address the problem tells me that they realize how ridiculous it sounds once forced to confront it, but they aren't willing to abandon something in which they've invested so much of their self-esteem.
 
Craig4 said:

What are the outcomes for people who take grape seed oil vs people who don't?

What charts do you have to establish this claim. Not to put too fine a point about it, you've lied about your age. That you'd lie about this isn't exactly a stretch.
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Oh please, you continue to say grape seed oil, put it in your salads and see how they taste and even cook with it, I did that for awhile yrs ago...I no longer buy or use grape seed OIL.


I have no charts and either take it or don't, do a google with all the benefits of grape seed extract and just about every known health issue.

Grape seed Extract and Asthma for one. Just One.

https://www.usairpurifiers.com/blog/grape-seed-extract-may-help-with-asthma-symptoms/

Do you have a health issue? If so, do a search of it and Grape Seed EXTRACT.
 
bruto said:
Note for Caroline: it can be very frustrating to be on the receiving end of so much criticism, but if you actually want to stay participating, either to enjoy the fray, to try to sell your point of view, or to learn from others, please take care.

The arts of both effective argument and polite disparagement benefit from some practice. Take your time.
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I'm a Big Girl and can handle myself as I know my Truths.
 
Craig4 said:

What are the outcomes for people who take grape seed oil vs people who don't?

What charts do you have to establish this claim. Not to put too fine a point about it, you've lied about your age. That you'd lie about this isn't exactly a stretch.
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And again what are you talking about, lied about my age...NEVER..

I'm 82 and will be 83 this summer. Where do you people come out of...

And Craig4, you need to find some interests, you are obsessed with my age, weird weird weird...
 
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https://www.webmd.com/diet/grape-seed-extract

There is evidence that grape seed extract is beneficial for a number of cardiovascular conditions. Grape seed extract may help with a type of poor circulation (chronic venous insufficiency) and high cholesterol. Grape seed extract also reduces swelling caused by injury and helps with eye disease related to diabetes.

Many people are interested in grape seed extract because it contains antioxidants. These are substances that protect cells from damage and may help prevent many diseases. However, it’s still too early to say whether the antioxidant properties of grape seed extract really benefit people. Researchers are studying grape seed extract to see if it might lower the risks of some cancers. For now, the evidence is not clear.

Grape seed extract has been studied for use in many other conditions -- ranging from PMS to skin damage to wound healing -- but the results have been inconclusive.
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