[ED] Discussion: Trans Women Are not Women (Part 6)

[Joe Random]

<...>
So liberals have to make a decision on whether their fear, distrust, and hate of us outweighs their other goals. Since they will need the support of the Republican Party and conservative groups to continue their anti-trans agenda.<...>

You grossly misspelled "acknowledgement of basic biology" above. HTH, HAND.

 

[Olmstead]

This isn't a hill leftists are willing to die on, which might be why it has gained so much traction. Sure, there might be a voice at the back of one's head muttering about scientific facts and fairness in sports, but there's bigger fish to fry.

 

[Collin237]

You grossly misspelled "acknowledgement of basic biology" above. HTH, HAND.

You grossly misspelled "I'm playing second fiddle".

 

[Elaedith]

UK Census

They are adding a voluntary question on gender and keeping a compulsory one on sex.

In 2017 the ONS suggested that it would be a gender question and got a lot of pushback from biologists, public policy specialists and women.

The optional question on gender identity refers to asking whether identity differs from sex registered at birth. The question on sex doesn't specify this, but the guidance says it can be answered with reference to 'legal sex', for example on a passport, which might be different from sex registered at birth. Therefore it is setting a precedent that a question on sex does not need to refer to actual biological or natal sex.

 

[Boudicca90]

Can you imagine a difference of opinion with you on some aspect of trans rights that was not coming from fear, distrust, hate, or something similar? If so, what might that look like?

No, not really.

They can't be as up front about it as conservatives, so they couch it in things like "women's rights" or "concern for children". It's a more underhanded form of justification for bigotry.

 

[Collin237]

I personally think this is a reason why many transgender people end up leftist

Evidence?

 

[Collin237]

No, not really.

They can't be as up front about it as conservatives, so they couch it in things like "women's rights" or "concern for children". It's a more underhanded form of justification for bigotry.

Every opinion on trans rights except yours is bigoted?

 

[Elaedith]

Every opinion on trans rights except yours is bigoted?

Did you not realise the purpose of bigoteering?

 

[Matthew Best]

The optional question on gender identity refers to asking whether identity differs from sex registered at birth. The question on sex doesn't specify this, but the guidance says it can be answered with reference to 'legal sex', for example on a passport, which might be different from sex registered at birth. Therefore it is setting a precedent that a question on sex does not need to refer to actual biological or natal sex.

Is that a precedent, though? I doubt there was anything preventing a trans person from writing their sex down whatever way they wanted in previous censuses (censi?). The only way this one is different is that they would now have to state whether their answer conflicts with the sex assigned at birth.

 

[Meadmaker]

It is interesting (and hilarious) to me how if anti-trans liberals want to keep discriminating against us, they will have to ally themselves with conservatives to do so.

It is interesting (and sad) to me to see how much groupthink is now expected, not just in this topic, but in every other one. We are expected to take a position based on whether we are liberals or conservatives. Instead of evaluating a position on its merits, it is all too common to see who's for it and who's against it, and make up your mind based on that.

 

[Collin237]

Did you not realise the purpose of bigoteering?

I'd never heard of that word. I just had to look it up. Yes, of course that's what I meant, but if I used that word I'd be one too.

 

[Collin237]

It is interesting (and sad) to me to see how much groupthink is now expected, not just in this topic, but in every other one. We are expected to take a position based on whether we are liberals or conservatives. Instead of evaluating a position on its merits, it is all too common to see who's for it and who's against it, and make up your mind based on that.

It's not always groupthink. Sometimes it's just avoiding zenning out on what the meaning of morality is.

 

[Elaedith]

Is that a precedent, though? I doubt there was anything preventing a trans person from writing their sex down whatever way they wanted in previous censuses (censi?).

Possibly not - I don't know what guidance stated in the previous census. It stands out because the guidance for the question on sex contrasts with what is stated under gender identity, where sex registered at birth is explicitly mentioned (obviously out of necessity). The introduction of the separate question on gender identity would have been a good opportunity to clarify the distinction and to emphasise that biological sex doesn't actually change. Legal sex (if changed from birth sex) is what corresponds to gender identity since it is effectively changed to match this (a legal fiction).

The only way this one is different is that they would now have to state whether their answer conflicts with the sex assigned at birth.

Do they? They can answer the question on sex with their legal sex if this was changed from sex registered at birth, and the gender identity question is optional.

 

[Elaedith]

It is interesting (and sad) to me to see how much groupthink is now expected, not just in this topic, but in every other one. We are expected to take a position based on whether we are liberals or conservatives. Instead of evaluating a position on its merits, it is all too common to see who's for it and who's against it, and make up your mind based on that.

This is why I dislike ideology - it becomes a form of fundamentalist religion. Something is correct because it conforms to ideology (which is what political correctness actually means), not because it is true. Evidence and argument need to be crafted to arrive at a conclusion pre-determined to be correct. Also the antithesis of skepticism.

 

[Matthew Best]

I don't remember the question about sex or gender in the last census, or any census come to that. I expect it just asked whether you were male or female, without defining either.

 

[Collin237]

This is why I dislike ideology - it becomes a form of fundamentalist religion. Something is correct because it conforms to ideology (which is what political correctness actually means), not because it is true. Evidence and argument need to be crafted to arrive at a conclusion pre-determined to be correct. Also the antithesis of skepticism.

It's only an anti-skeptical ideology when it's a pre-determined IS.

A pre-determined OUGHT can simply be a moral standpoint.

 

[Joe Random]

No, not really.<...>

"God said it, I believe it, that settles it."

Every single bit as closed minded and intolerant.

 

[Emily's Cat]

But we aren't talking about cis men here, we are talking about transgender women, who are female.

No. Just no. Please stop with the anti-science screed.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Not necessarily. Sex is more than chromosomes and reproductive organs.

This is anti-science flat-earth BS.

Sex is the type of gamete you have. End of.

Sex is NOT a feeling in your head.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Trans women were/are always women, that's what you don't understand. I was a woman who was assigned a male gender/sex based on my genitals and the attempt was made to socialize me as a male, but it was a failure because I never accepted it.

By transitioning I'm simply correcting an error that was made early on in my life.

At birth, you were accurately identified as a male of the human species. There was no error made on the part of the doctor.