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Cancel culture IRL

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I actually (obviously I don't know or have any way of knowing for sure) had the impression before this whole kerfuffle started that the entire Cara Dune character was supposed to be a 1 and done in the first season, and only brought back for second season because of positive response (to the character or actor or both).

She really isn't like super-essential to the plot as noted, especially with the now established alternative faction Mandalorians.
 
No we established early on in this thread that is not what those opposed to “cancel culture” are against as they claim it is something new and only recent.

All we need to do is look at the controversy that surrounded the T.V. show Married With Children for a historical example of cancel culture. It's nothing new outside the phrase.

Maybe those who are claiming it is new watched The Social Dilemma and actually bought it's message delivered by mournful ex-social media employees moaning about how they've wrecked the world by unleashing this monster on society.

How did a movement like the Satanic Panic ever get going without the dreaded social media as a driving force ?
 
Did anyone even come to Terrence Howard's defense when they re-cast him with Don Cheadle? I think probably not, guys apparently a total douche, but not in a politically polarizing way.

Not just a douche with multiple cases of domestic violence and assault, but functionally pretty close to insane.

I often use "2+2=4" as a turn of phrase that means "inarguable fact."

Well Terrence Howard disagrees with me.

https://mashable.com/2015/09/14/terrence-howard-one-times-one/
 
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This pronoun thing seems largely to be just another melodramatic way of setting oneself up to be offended by the intolerance of the evil people around you. I'm perfectly fine with calling a transwoman "she", but if she's telling me I have to remember it's "they" instead she's just looking for an opportunity to take umbrage.
Being friends with a number of people who use they/them, I can assure you that the "pronoun thing" is absolutely not that.

If someone asks you to use particular pronouns, please use them. It's not hard.
 
Being friends with a number of people who use they/them, I can assure you that the "pronoun thing" is absolutely not that.

If someone asks you to use particular pronouns, please use them. It's not hard.

If anyone asks me to use particular pronouns, they're thinking they're so special that I should make a special effort to remember that just for that one person. Like, I may forget yesterday I thought I need to buy milk today, but elder gods help us all if I forget that some guy I talked to two times in the last month total wants me to use some special pronoun just for him. I don't know what kind of entitlement delusion that might spawn from, but my answer would be: sorry, you're not royalty, you don't actually warrant more effort on my part than everyone else. And if being treated equally to everyone else makes you sad, boo-hoo, cry me a river.

Don't get me wrong, I don't actually care if they identify as a man, woman, cat, or attack helicopter. Good for them. But those are the operative words: I don't actually care. I'm not going to put in any extra effort to comply with whatever idiotic entitlements they may come up with.
 
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If anyone asks me to use particular pronouns, they're thinking they're so special that I should make a special effort to remember that just for that one person. Like, I may forget yesterday I thought I need to buy milk today, but elder gods help us all if I forget that some guy I talked to two times in the last month total wants me to use some special pronoun just for him. I don't know what kind of entitlement delusion that might spawn from, but my answer would be: sorry, you're not royalty, you don't actually warrant more effort on my part than everyone else. And if being treated equally to everyone else makes you sad, boo-hoo, cry me a river.

Don't get me wrong, I don't actually care if they identify as a man, woman, cat, or attack helicopter. Good for them. But those are the operative words: I don't actually care. I'm not going to put in any extra effort to comply with whatever idiotic entitlements they may come up with.
I can only say again - please use peoples' pronouns correctly. It really isn't that hard, and being misgendered can be extremely painful. It doesn't matter if you forget once or twice and need to be corrected. No-one except the real divas will care about that.

One of the children I raised, who is now an adult, is nonbinary and uses they/them. I forget occasionally, though I am much better at it now. A dear friend recently identified as transgender and requested that we use they/them until they settle into their identity. I know people from across the transgender and nonbinary spectrum, and one thing they all say is that remembering and using someone's pronouns is literally the least that you can do to recognise their basic identity.

Please use the correct pronouns.
 
Being friends with a number of people who use they/them, I can assure you that the "pronoun thing" is absolutely not that.

If someone asks you to use particular pronouns, please use them. It's not hard.

To co-sign arthwollipot, very few people will complain, as long as you just try to get it right.
 
"It's not really that hard", and "I forget occasionally" even about YOUR OWN CHILD, are very much mutually exclusive. If you're telling me that you keep forgetting even for someone you presumably care deeply about, and after presumably many years of trying to get it right, then you ARE in fact telling me that it IS hard. It's downright nonsense to try to have it both ways at the same time.

But generally: How about... no? Again, I'm not going to put extra effort for some guy I don't give a flip about. Your child may be all special to you, but he sure AF isn't to me. I literally couldn't give a rodent's rear about his entitlement delusions, and I'm not going to put any extra effort into remembering how he wants to be called.

And if it's painful for them to be reminded that they're not all special and entitled to extra effort by everyone else: GOOD. Everyone else has gone through that too. It's called "GROWING UP". Your kid should try it some day. The rest of us too had to discover at some point that while mommy and daddy said we're special -- and look, they even sent us to a special school, that's how special we are ;) -- to everyone else we really aren't.
 
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"It's not really that hard", and "I forget occasionally" even about YOUR OWN CHILD, are very much mutually exclusive. If you're telling me that you keep forgetting even for someone you presumably care deeply about, and after presumably many years of trying to get it right, then you ARE in fact telling me that it IS hard. It's downright nonsense to try to have it both ways at the same time.
I have slipped up, yes. I think I've made three mistakes in the last three years, all of them more than two years ago. This is a person I saw pop out of their mother - a life habit is not something that changes instantly. It takes a little while to get used to, but it is not difficult to do. Once you've got it in your head, it's there. I implore you to make the small effort it takes.

But generally: How about... no? Again, I'm not going to put extra effort for some guy I don't give a flip about. Your child may be all special to you, but he sure AF isn't to me. I literally couldn't give a rodent's rear about his entitlement delusions, and I'm not going to put any extra effort into remembering how he wants to be called.
You are directly insulting them, and me, by deliberately and maliciously misgendering them like this. Please stop. Also, how do you know they are a guy? I've just told you they're not. I didn't tell you their gender at birth because it's none of your business. You just assumed it.

Furthermore, my child is not likely to be your concern. Other people will be your concern. The way you are treating my child is the way you will treat other people, and that can be harmful. In my opinion it is no different - no different - to calling a homosexual by a slur. It is not acceptable in polite society, and there will be social consequences. This is not me cancelling you, this is me pointing out that you are on the wrong side of society. A different wrong side from racists and homophobes, perhaps, but still the wrong side.

And if it's painful for them to be reminded that they're not all special and entitled to extra effort by everyone else: GOOD. Everyone else has gone through that too. It's called "GROWING UP". Your kid should try it some day. The rest of us too had to discover at some point that while mommy and daddy said we're special -- and look, they even sent us to a special school, that's how special we are ;) -- to everyone else we really aren't.
Respectfully, this is a terrible attitude, and could lead to real harm. You (presumably by your poor behaviour) have no experience with gender dysphoria and don't know what nonbinary people go through. Please reconsider your response other peoples' experiences.
 
I have slipped up, yes. I think I've made three mistakes in the last three years, all of them more than two years ago. This is a person I saw pop out of their mother - a life habit is not something that changes instantly. It takes a little while to get used to, but it is not difficult to do. Once you've got it in your head, it's there. I implore you to make the small effort it takes.

Mate, if there were any other task -- say, doing something on the computer -- that you still got wrong at all after many years of doing it, and having all the incentive in the world to get it right, I'm sorry, but nobody would call it easy.

But more importantly, no matter how big or small the effort, you don't get to decide for me that I MUST care about your pet issue. Out of all the issues -- ranging from world hunger, to global warming, to Apple vs Microsoft vs Linux, to whatever -- that I might devote my limited time and mental capacity to, you have unilaterally decided that YOUR issue is THE one I MUST have in the top X that I actually care about and devote an effort to.

Sorry, but... what in Lucifer Morningstar's good name do you think gives you that right? Do you think you're royalty, or...?

I don't even care if it's a big or small effort. You don't get to unilaterally decide that I need to do it.

Jesus F Christ. Forget "cancel culture" or whatever, THIS is the real problem of the modern age: people thinking they're entitled to tell you that THEIR pet issue -- be it gender, Apple vs Microsoft vs Linux, saving the polar bears, or whatever -- is THE one you should have at the top of your list to care about. And taking it as some kind of hostility if you don't actually care about what they tell you to.

You are directly insulting them, and me, by deliberately and maliciously misgendering them like this. Please stop.

If you're that easily insulted that people don't bend over backwards to obey what you unilaterally decided should be one of their top concerns to devote their effort to... GOOD. Spares me the time to write an actual insult, and it's less likely to annoy the moderators :p

Also, how do you know they are a guy? I've just told you they're not. I didn't tell you their gender at birth because it's none of your business. You just assumed it.

I don't. I just don't give a flip. I just took my usual default. And yes, I've referred to very binary women as a "he" before.

I really was serious before that unless I'm actually intending to hump someone -- and doubly so about people over the Internet -- I'm like the Warhammer 40K Orks: everyone is one of Da Boyz. Just some of Da Boyz is funny shaped.

I might go for what looks like the obvious pronoun if you're in front of me and your clothing/haircut/makeup/whatever suggest an obvious "he" or "she", but otherwise you're a "he" as far as I'm concerned.

And on the bright side, it keeps me from doing "oh, she's only saying that / having problems with that / whatever because she's a woman" bulverisms.

Furthermore, my child is not likely to be your concern. Other people will be your concern. The way you are treating my child is the way you will treat other people, and that can be harmful. In my opinion it is no different - no different - to calling a homosexual by a slur.

No it's not. One is caring enough one way or the other to use a slur, the other is not giving a flying f-bomb either way. And again, you don't get to decide what I should care about.

And anyone who thinks that refusing to let them dictate what I should care about is no different from actual hostility... yeah, well, that's exactly the kind of entitlement I was talking about.

Sorry. Nobody personally owes you anything, much less to let you write the list of what they should care about.

It is not acceptable in polite society, and there will be social consequences. This is not me cancelling you, this is me pointing out that you are on the wrong side of society. A different wrong side from racists and homophobes, perhaps, but still the wrong side.

The key difference being that racists and homophobes are actually against you being X, while I don't care at all either way. You're free to do whatever you wish. I won't try to stop you, but I won't be your champion either. But apparently just the fact that they can't unilaterally tell me to be in their camp, is insult enough for some people. Heh.

Sorry, but that's how everything else works in a modern western society. Again: nobody personally owes you a damn thing. Whatever positive rights you may have, they're handled by government agencies out of my taxes. Everything else is entirely voluntary.

You're free to believe X or do Y, as long as they're not illegal, but nobody has to bend over backwards to help you do that. Regardless of whether it's starting a business, getting a better job, starting a cult of Alduin, getting a date (same sex or otherwise), or identifying as an attack helicopter: go for it. But nobody owes it to you. We're not stopping you. We might even cheer at you if you succeed. But nobody owes you any care or effort towards whatever your issue is.
 
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Mate, if there were any other task -- say, doing something on the computer -- that you still got wrong at all after many years of doing it, and having all the incentive in the world to get it right, I'm sorry, but nobody would call it easy.

But more importantly, no matter how big or small the effort, you don't get to decide for me that I MUST care about your pet issue. Out of all the issues -- ranging from world hunger, to global warming, to Apple vs Microsoft vs Linux, to whatever -- that I might devote my limited time and mental capacity to, you have unilaterally decided that YOUR issue is THE one I MUST have in the top X that I actually care about and devote an effort to.

Well, I mean, if you don't care enough to distinguish yourself from actual bigots, then go right ahead.

Just don't be shocked when people fail to distinguish you from a bigot, since that's the inevitable end result. If you insist on waddling around, going "quack quack quack"...
 
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Well, I mean, if you don't care enough to distinguish yourself from actual bigots, then go right ahead.

If anyone genuinely can't distinguish between the very different stances of:

1. Being against you doing X, and
2. Not caring either way about whether you do X or not,

well, then they're an entitled idiot, and I don't care what they think about me.


I mean, let's try it for any other X

1. person A is against Mexicans in their neighbourhood, while
2. person B doesn't care if they have Mexican neighbours or not.

Or

1. person A is against hiring blacks, while
2. person B doesn't care if there are blacks or not among his coworkers.

Or

1. person A is against women in engineering jobs, while
2. person B doesn't care whether you hire women or not.

Or

1. person A is against gay marriage, while
2. person B doesn't care who you marry. Knock yourself up... err... out.


Sorry, but anyone who genuinely finds position 2 indistinguishable from position 1, isn't some kind of progressive. That's some entitled twit who thinks the whole world owes him to champion his cause and help him get what he wants.

It's in fact, exactly the kind of entitlement delusions that produce the incels, among others. Those too think that everyone who isn't actively championing their right to get laid is the enemy.
 
This latest incident was “the final straw”, which means there were other straws. It’s the straws in total that got her fired.

So no, she didn’t get fired over a single social media post. She got fired for a pattern of behavior that she was almost certainly warned about and definitely violated the terms of her employment contact.

And strictly speaking she was not fired, they just decided she was not worth hiring for future projects.
 
They called her posts "abhorrent." Given the available alternatives, it surprises me when so many decent people deliberately choose the head-in-sand argument. I agree that it ultimately comes down to economic self-interest, but that is itself contingent upon this moral dynamic. If a movie studio knew a celebrated writer/director/showrunner had been abusing cast and crew, but did some cost-benefit analysis and sided with him for economic reasons, would you be like, "Well, I can't really fault them for following the money. That's capitalism, fer ya."

What do you expect from baby eating jews? Or are you going to try to cancel that mainstream political opinion?
 
Of course Carano was not an "at-will" employee. She had a contract with Disney who I have no doubt had an escape clause of some kind to do with her causing them public embarrassment. I'm also willing to bet that employees in other countries that don't have "at-will employment" can be fired for spouting racist or looney tunes conspiracy theories publicly online. Maybe some non-American posters can weigh in?

Had she even signed a contract for season 3 yet?
 
The problem with the cancel culture is that the further one goes with censorship, the closer one gets to the kind of dictatorial behaviour that most of us would hope to avoid.

It's far better to debate than cancel.
 
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