Cont: [ED] Discussion: Trans Women are not Women (Part 5)

[TurkeysGhost]

Are you playing willfully dumb here?

Manger Douse is referencing the hordes of anonymous internet TRAs who have adopted "Punch a TERF" and "TERFs should all die" and posting pictures of themselves holding barbed-wire wrapped baseball bats with captions like "I'm going TERF hunting" or "Out to smack a transphobe".

THAT group of barbed-wire brandishing baseball bat brigade. THAT group of anonymous people who threatened and harassed the racial minority women that Yaniv targeted for his "vexatious litigation" because Yaniv made them out to be bigoted transphobes... and the internet horde of TRAs agreed with him.

Are you telling me that the internet is full of unhinged keyboard warriors? Wow, I didn't know that.

The internet is a trash can. Writing the wrong kind of fanfic leads to death threats. The fact that this trash culture also applies to hot-button cultural issues like trans rights does not surprise me.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to prove other than people are generally far too uninhibited with violent rhetoric when using the semi-anonymity of the internet.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Unquestioningly male according to you, I'm not a biological and gender essentialist however and I don't subscribe to the idea that physical features indicate gender.

Physical features indicate SEX. Female only spaces - including prisons - are segregated on the basis of SEX.

You want to replace SEX with GENDER for all of those spaces.

It is incumbent upon you to determine a way that will allow you as a transwoman and me as a female to appropriately and correctly exclude cismen from our spaces while allowing transwomen.

How do you propose to do so?

 

[Emily's Cat]

People assumed that sex reassignment surgery was available to transsexuals who did not fully live at least 1.5 years in the opposite gender role? And they assumed that such surgery has such a high priority to healthcare systems that there were no waiting lists?

They (including me) assumed that the transsexuals who were entering our spaces had already gone through all of that.

We definitely did NOT assume that there were penis-havers in our spaces.

 

[Emily's Cat]

So far seems to be fine. no waves of cis-men lining up to get their peeping-tom permit from the gov. I guess we're all waiting for the pervert apocalypse that was promised by the anti-trans advocates when this was being debated years ago.

https://www.womenarehuman.com/category/americas/canada/

 

[Emily's Cat]

Get enough of those anecdotes together and we got a stew going.

And we're right back to the question that you keep ignoring and refusing to answer:

How many rapes and assaults should females be expected to suffer in order to validate the feelings of penis-havers who identify as women?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

https://www.womenarehuman.com/category/americas/canada/

Have you considered this rebutal?

TERFTearsRSalty.biz

 

[Boudicca90]

Boudicca.

What differentiates sex and gender for you? (Honest question, no snark.)

Do you consider them the same thing?

I'd say I consider them similar, but not exactly the same. I see sex as dealing with more physical aspects and gender as more social. I say I'm a female as well as a woman because I am transitioning my body to become more female, whereas in everyday life since gender is what we see more publicly, I am a woman.

I do think in society the distinctions of separation of the sexes is really the separation of genders. So Gender>Sex when it comes to the issues we are discussing.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Three businesses going under doesn't exactly strike me as fine

At the end of the day, they're just females. ST has made it clear repeatedly that he really doesn't give a **** about females. We're unworthy of consideration, and if females have to be sacrificed in order to let a small number or prostate-owners feel affirmed about their subjective perception of their mental identity... well, that's just acceptable collateral damage.

 

[Emily's Cat]

It matters in the sense that people here are insisting on deadnaming and misgendering her.

Whether or not she's a piece of **** and a nuisance to her community is immaterial to whether or not openly bigoted treatment is acceptable. You don't, in fact, get a transphobe pass just because the target is a real *******.

Uh huh.

"Misgendering" and "deadnaming" a ******* predator is a transgression that cannot be forgiven... meanwhile, females being harassed, raped, put in danger, and being called paranoid and hysterical is no big deal.

At least we really do know where your priorities are.

You don't, in fact, get a misogynist pass just because you think the feelings of testicle-havers are more important than females are.

 

[Thermal]

your argument from personal incredulity is noted.

Hm? There's nothing incredulous about 'physical is physical, and verbal is verbal'

 

[Emily's Cat]

Everyone just learn how to hold it in and go to the bathroom at home.

No big deal. Let's just rewind history by 150 years and reinstitute that urinary leash.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Everyone just learn how to hold it in and go to the bathroom at home.

I'm (obviously) being facititious but Jesus people care a lot about what's going on in their bathrooms. Public bathrooms are in, do business, get out. I don't really hang around in them long enough to make other people uncomfortable, get uncomfortable myself.

I know this was an offhand joke, but this is literally a known problem for trans people who fear being confronted, harassed, or assaulted in restrooms by transphobic freaks.

The data comes from the 2015 US Transgender Survey, which surveyed trans people in the US:

59% have avoided bathrooms in the last year because they feared confrontations in public restrooms at work, at school, or in other places.

12% report that they have been harassed, attacked, or sexually assaulted in a bathroom in the last year.

31% have avoided drinking or eating so that they did not need to use the restroom in the last year.

24% report that someone told them they were using the wrong restroom or questioned their presence in the restroom in the last year.

9% report being denied access to the appropriate restroom in the last year.

8% report having a kidney or urinary tract infection, or another kidney-related medical issue, from avoiding restrooms in the last year.

https://www.vox.com/2016/7/12/12161210/transgender-bathroom-survey

 

[JoeMorgue]

//Serious question//

Does transgenderism tend (no need to demand absolutes) to be viewed differently in cultures that aren't so private about bathroom functions and nudity?

 

[Meadmaker]

I know this was an offhand joke, but this is literally a known problem for trans people who fear being confronted, harassed, or assaulted in restrooms by transphobic freaks.



https://www.vox.com/2016/7/12/12161210/transgender-bathroom-survey

There sure is a lot of name calling in this thread.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Every gym I've ever been to involves proving to the desk clerk that I am a member. I'm assuming this would be difficult for someone who has been ejected and had their membership cancelled for being a perv.

Uh-huh. What about those who were pervs at a different gym? Is there a way to PREVENT them from causing harm at a new gym? Or do we just have to wait until AFTER they've harmed a women before we can do anything about it?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

There sure is a lot of name calling in this thread.

There's already a thread for pearlclutching about this.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Genitals don't determine sex or gender. Cisgender women don't need to be "silent" or "surrender", you just can't exclude us anymore. Sorry.

Hooray for male privilege! Long live the supremacy of prostate-havers!

 

[caveman1917]

Why is that?

How would the success of the case be what makes it relevant? Either the beauty pageant's policy is relevant to trans rights or it isn't, the relevance doesn't depend on the outcome of the case.

Unless the court agrees and rules in favor of Yaniv, whatever she's on about is just ravings of someone known to bring meritless claims.

You think the beauty pageant's policy in damion's link was faked by the news site or someone else? I see no reason to assume that this isn't in fact the policy in question.

Especially when we know the person making the claim has a prior history of making bizarre, meritless arguments.

Forcing people to wax one's balls against their will is a different argument from participating in a beauty pageant.

 

[Matthew Best]

Is there any reason to believe Yaniv's trans status is insincere?

Is there any reason to believe Yaniv's trans status is sincere?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Uh-huh. What about those who were pervs at a different gym? Is there a way to PREVENT them from causing harm at a new gym? Or do we just have to wait until AFTER they've harmed a women before we can do anything about it?

You got me, pre-crime technology is still in alpha testing.