Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

Steve said:
Which "these" exactly?



When and by what method did Biden assign them to this task?

(Was it one of yesterday's executive orders, perhaps?)



For a supposed American you have little concept of the limits of the POTUS's power.
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They are federal police. ICE agents.

POTUS might have limited powers, but the tactics and deployment of federal police are 100% controlled within the executive branch.

I don't understand what you mean here. The federal police report through the executive branch, with the top of their command chain ending at the Presidency.

Edit: I don't blame Biden for last night's police brutality, it was literally the night of his inauguration. But it's not unreasonable to expect a response from him since these cops, who now report to him, seem to believe they can continue with their Trump era jackbooted tactics.
 
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johnny karate said:
Feels like this would be a good time to remind people that the violent insurrections who invaded the Capitol were gently escorted from the crime scene and allowed to go home.
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Although, to be fair, quite a few of them were not allowed to stay there.

(i.e. they went home, but they ended up in jail a week later.)
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
They are federal police. ICE agents.

POTUS might have limited powers, but the tactics and deployment of federal police are 100% controlled within the executive branch.

I don't understand what you mean here. The federal police report through the executive branch, with the top of their command chain ending at the Presidency.

Edit: I don't blame Biden for last night's police brutality, it was literally the night of his inauguration. But it's not unreasonable to expect a response from him since these cops, who now report to him, seem to believe they can continue with their Trump era jackbooted tactics.
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Your edit is reasonable. Unfortunately it makes the entirety of your post that I quoted unreasonable and unnecessary.
 
Meadmaker said:
Although, to be fair, quite a few of them were not allowed to stay there.

(i.e. they went home, but they ended up in jail a week later.)
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Yes, and all they had to do to eventually get arrested was refuse to stop broadcasting direct evidence of their crimes to the whole world.
 
ponderingturtle said:
I was being serious, shrimp bombs to trigger anaphylactic shock seem very much police speed.
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Most people are not allergic to shrimp and those who are could just close thier mouths and not eat them. Everybody else would welcome shrimp bombs as a delicious appetizer to enjoy between burning buildings and assaulting innocent bystanders. If you want to trigger anaphylactic shock, Africanized killer bees would a more effective weapon. They would trigger anaphylactic shock among the peaceful protestors who are allergic to bees but even if you're not allergic to their venom, being stung in and of itself is not a lot of fun. Additionally, because the killer bees have been africanized, they have that jungle fury which makes them alot more aggressive.
 
Steve said:
When this thread started it was all about rioting looting and vandalism by the left. 6 months later it is all about rioting looting and vandalism by the right. Seems that in the USA violence is seen as the way to get what you want. Maybe your political extremes have more in common than you realize.
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That is a lot more true than many people either fail to, or choose not to realize.

The reality is that if we actually want to deal with the violent extremists on both sides, than it is the moderates that hold the key to stopping it.

In all of the cases, the violence occurred because the moderates allowed it to. Either by pushing false conspiracy theories that riled up the Trump extremists, or covering for the violence in the name of BLM by refusing to condemn the incitement and acts for violence.

While the violence from the Anarchists and Right wing extremists certainly takes the headlines, the ringleaders are behind the scenes. If we want to really address it, that is where the focus needs to be.

In Portland and Seattle, the primary instigators are not the most violent Anarchists who have engaged in large acts of violence and attempted murder, it is the rogue prosecuting officers that have actively set policies to give immunity to the vast majority of the acts of violence, and encourage it to continue.

On the right, it is all of the people who played up the knowingly false conspiracies to use for their own benefit.

Since it is the moderates who hold the key to stopping the violence. The most important step is to convince both sides that the violence from their side is damaging enough to their causes for them to take serious steps to address and stop it.
 
One very effective solution to a breakdown of prosecuting officers that do not convict people for the violence the carry out is to Federally deputize police. When you have a prosecuting office that is no longer functioning, and actively encouraging the violence to continue, getting one that does is a great way to address it.
 
caveman1917 said:
I think plenty of people have been denouncing the police violence that occurred during the BLM protests.
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Do you think that violence against police, or against innocent people in the community is an effective strategy?

A fair amount of the violence against the police during some of the BLM protests meets every definition of a hate crime. Some states have taken steps to protect their police from vicious attacks by defining those attacks as a hate crime.

Because of the damage that the violent extremists on the left have done to the BLM cause, it should be in everyone's interest, but especially the interests of the supporters of the BLM cause like myself, to try to address and stop the people who carry out attacks of violence in the name of BLM.
 
HoverBoarder said:
Do you think that violence against police, or against innocent people in the community is an effective strategy?
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I mean, groups like BLM have outright tossed potentially violent people out of their organizations, denounced violence that they're accused of even when there's no connection at all, warned police, and placed themselves between dangerous people and stranded police and abandoned stores, so...don't know what more you want them to do.

Seems kinda different than the guys who posted online about how they want to kill congresspeople, bashed their way into the Capitol, chanted about killing the VP, set up gallows outside congress, brought weapons and flexcuffs into congress, and physically attacked multiple people while breaking into congress.
 
HoverBoarder said:
Do you think that violence against police, or against innocent people in the community is an effective strategy?

A fair amount of the violence against the police during some of the BLM protests meets every definition of a hate crime. Some states have taken steps to protect their police from vicious attacks by defining those attacks as a hate crime.

Because of the damage that the violent extremists on the left have done to the BLM cause, it should be in everyone's interest, but especially the interests of the supporters of the BLM cause like myself, to try to address and stop the people who carry out attacks of violence in the name of BLM.
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And what about when police instigate and escalate violence at otherwise peaceful protests? How should that be handled?
 
dirtywick said:
occupation isn’t and shouldn’t be a protected class.
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And yet it is. We are told violent protests should not be tolerated, and yet over and over again we see police instigating and escalating violence at these protests with total impunity.

I’m curious what the advocates of total non-violence who demand perfect behavior from protesters recommend should be done about that.
 
i don’t really have any ideas. the police have abused public trust at a national level for a very long time. simply holding them accountable is being taken as an attack against them, and I don’t know why people are falling for that narrative but the widespread defense against indefensible behavior is enabling them to push it.
 
Mumbles said:
I mean, groups like BLM have outright tossed potentially violent people out of their organizations, denounced violence that they're accused of even when there's no connection at all, warned police, and placed themselves between dangerous people and stranded police and abandoned stores, so...don't know what more you want them to do.

Seems kinda different than the guys who posted online about how they want to kill congresspeople, bashed their way into the Capitol, chanted about killing the VP, set up gallows outside congress, brought weapons and flexcuffs into congress, and physically attacked multiple people while breaking into congress.
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Absolutely they are completely different. 100% agree but somehow you keep imagining people are saying they are the same when they are not saying they are the same.
 
Mayor Ted "Tear Gas" Wheeler really leaning into the name, pepper sprayed an unarmed man that heckled him when leaving a restaurant.

Wheeler originally put out a statement that the man was menacing him and that he warned his assailant before using pepper spray.

Wheeler was with former mayor Sam Adams, who managed to record audio of the encounter. It reveals that the man speaking in a normal tone of voice criticized the pair for violating covid restrictions, and there was no warning from Wheeler about pepper spray.

While Wheeler characterizes this as menacing and an implied threat of violence, the audio of the incident makes it seem like Wheeler peppersprayed an unarmed person because he didn't like being criticized.

Sounds an awful lot like Wheeler made false statements in a police report in an effort to justify dubious use of force.

https://www.wweek.com/news/2021/01/25/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-pepper-sprayed-a-heckler-outside-a-mcmenamins-former-mayor-sam-adams-was-a-witness/
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Mayor Ted "Tear Gas" Wheeler really leaning into the name, pepper sprayed an unarmed man that heckled him when leaving a restaurant.

Wheeler originally put out a statement that the man was menacing him and that he warned his assailant before using pepper spray.

Wheeler was with former mayor Sam Adams, who managed to record audio of the encounter. It reveals that the man speaking in a normal tone of voice criticized the pair for violating covid restrictions, and there was no warning from Wheeler about pepper spray.

While Wheeler characterizes this as menacing and an implied threat of violence, the audio of the incident makes it seem like Wheeler peppersprayed an unarmed person because he didn't like being criticized.

Sounds an awful lot like Wheeler made false statements in a police report in an effort to justify dubious use of force.

https://www.wweek.com/news/2021/01/25/portland-mayor-ted-wheeler-pepper-sprayed-a-heckler-outside-a-mcmenamins-former-mayor-sam-adams-was-a-witness/
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Cary Cadonau, the person bullying Ted Wheeler has apologized for his actions saying "I am remorseful for my decision to confront Mayor Wheeler on Sunday, Jan. 24, and I am sorry he felt the need to use pepper spray"

Cary Cadonau is a bully and douche bag
 
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