Riots, looting, vandalism, etc.

Steve said:
When this thread started it was all about rioting looting and vandalism by the left. 6 months later it is all about rioting looting and vandalism by the right. Seems that in the USA violence is seen as the way to get what you want. Maybe your political extremes have more in common than you realize.
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Sure, a riot protesting murders by unaccountable police officers is basically the same and storming the capitol to overturn the results of a free and fair election.

It's actually impossible to tell the difference between good and bad things.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Sure, a riot protesting murders by unaccountable police officers is basically the same and storming the capitol to overturn the results of a free and fair election.

It's actually impossible to tell the difference between good and bad things.
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Seems to me that all the rioters, looters and vandals down there thought they were doing the "good" thing. And that the riots looting and vandalism would get them what they want. How is that working so far?
 
Steve said:
Seems to me that all the rioters, looters and vandals down there thought they were doing the "good" thing. And that the riots looting and vandalism would get them what they want. How is that working so far?
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I would say that the BLM summer has had partial success, but success nonetheless. Certainly more than if they minded their manners and didn't bother anyone.
 
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Steve said:
When this thread started it was all about rioting looting and vandalism by the left. 6 months later it is all about rioting looting and vandalism by the right. Seems that in the USA violence is seen as the way to get what you want. Maybe your political extremes have more in common than you realize.
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It's a circle. They go farther and farther out until they meet at the other side.

Each side firmly believes that what they are doing is righteous and justified, and that the collateral damage inflicted on innocent bystanders is a necessary evil in their holy quest for the greater good. They're all convinced that the other side is filled with evil malefactors intent on undermining everything good in the US, and that the only way to overcome that existential threat is with violence.

Anybody who thinks they should all start acting like responsible adults with a modicum of compassion for others are heretics.
 
Emily's Cat said:
It's a circle. They go farther and farther out until they meet at the other side.

Each side firmly believes that what they are doing is righteous and justified, and that the collateral damage inflicted on innocent bystanders is a necessary evil in their holy quest for the greater good. They're all convinced that the other side is filled with evil malefactors intent on undermining everything good in the US, and that the only way to overcome that existential threat is with violence.

Anybody who thinks they should all start acting like responsible adults with a modicum of compassion for others are heretics.
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Only one side attempted to overturn the results of a free and fair election with violent insurrection.

Peddle your bothsidesism elsewhere. No one here is buying.
 
Emily's Cat said:
Different beliefs, same behaviors.

The true believers never buy that another person's faith is valid. And all adherents to faith abhor the atheist.
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No, a violent coup is most decidedly a “different behavior”.

Equating it with rioting and looting minimizes the seriousness of it, and reads as apologist sophistry for right wing terrorism.
 
Violence doesn't turn a good cause into a bad one, or a bad cause into a good one.

I think all of the violence that has rattled the nation in the last year has been bad, and we can denounce all of it, but denouncing the violence doesn't say anything about the cause. We can't create some sort of moral equivalence in the cause if we find some the methods equally bad.

ETA: Let me be more explicit. The BLM protests were in a good cause, but we should denounce the violence that occurred. The Capitol putsch protests were in a bad cause, and it would have been bad even if it had remained peaceful.
 
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Meadmaker said:
Violence doesn't turn a good cause into a bad one, or a bad cause into a good one.

I think all of the violence that has rattled the nation in the last year has been bad, and we can denounce all of it, but denouncing the violence doesn't say anything about the cause. We can't create some sort of moral equivalence in the cause if we find some the methods equally bad.

ETA: Let me be more explicit. The BLM protests were in a good cause, but we should denounce the violence that occurred. The Capitol putsch protests were in a bad cause, and it would have been bad even if it had remained peaceful.
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The methods aren’t equally bad because they aren’t equal methods.

Any bothsider who wants to be taken even remotely seriously needs to acknowledge this very obvious fact.
 
Meadmaker said:
Violence doesn't turn a good cause into a bad one, or a bad cause into a good one.

I think all of the violence that has rattled the nation in the last year has been bad, and we can denounce all of it, but denouncing the violence doesn't say anything about the cause. We can't create some sort of moral equivalence in the cause if we find some the methods equally bad.

ETA: Let me be more explicit. The BLM protests were in a good cause, but we should denounce the violence that occurred. The Capitol putsch protests were in a bad cause, and it would have been bad even if it had remained peaceful.
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Mostly agreed.
I think there's a difference between an incorrect cause and a "bad" cause. And I'd say what makes a bad cause is partly that is at least carries a high risk of a harmful action.

If we could have been totally confident that the people who believed the election was stolen and Pence was capable of doing anything about it would stop at waving signs and that would be the end of it, then it would be sad and incorrect but that would be all.

There are legitimate and illegitimate grievances and either can lead to destructive actions. But an illegitimate greivance that doesn't carry a real risk of bad action has mostly its believers as victims.
 
Bogative said:
How about the 50+ secret service agents who were injured during the antifa/BLM riots at the White House this summer. The same riots that involved multiple fires, Molotov cocktails, fireworks, bricks and glass bottles that were used against law enforcement? I seem to recall one of those involving the Secret Service forcing the president into an underground bunker at the White House to which members on this board celebrated. Or do those riots not count for reasons?
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So you're not dead, but back to peddle Trumpist "whataboutism'....
:rolleyes:
 
Meadmaker said:
Violence doesn't turn a good cause into a bad one, or a bad cause into a good one.

I think all of the violence that has rattled the nation in the last year has been bad, and we can denounce all of it, but denouncing the violence doesn't say anything about the cause. We can't create some sort of moral equivalence in the cause if we find some the methods equally bad.

ETA: Let me be more explicit. The BLM protests were in a good cause, but we should denounce the violence that occurred. The Capitol putsch protests were in a bad cause, and it would have been bad even if it had remained peaceful.
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THe obvious further problem - much of the violence we saw from "BLM protests" fell into three categories:

1 - the destitute/very young, people happy to destroy for it's own sake or loot out of need.

2 - the police, who we saw beating veterans, knocking over the elderly, teargassing people they kettled, etc.

3 - Boogalo Boys and other assorted nationalists happy to attack whoever.

Had the insurrectionists at the Capitol been wearing black hoodies and face masks and so forth, I'd have considered the idea that they were actually Black Bloc anarchists. Instead, we got muppets snitching on themselves on social media, Dances with Karens with his goofball outfit, the desert dish from the Unite the Right rally, and so forth, all happily explaining that they were doing it because Toupee Fiasco wanted them to.

At the same time...yes, lots of people went to protest/see Orange Badman without any violence at all. I won't say I'm fine with it, he was a terrible excuse for a president, but I'm fine with their behavior.
 
Federal police in Portland induce seizure in protestor by using a strobe light. Usually this is a tactic used by Proud Boys or other fascists in the area that discovered they could injure epileptic protestors this way.

Spoiler tagged because video shows rapid strobing lights.


Feds blanketed the streets with gas again.
 
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ponderingturtle said:
Up next Shrimp bombs to target those allergic to shellfish?
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It is likely intentional. The reporter linked above, Melissa Lewis, is a fixture as a journalist covering the protests in the area. Police know she is an epileptic and intentionally induced a seizure for her in the past.

https://twitter.com/Claudio_Report/status/1281286854961053696


There is currently a civil suit filed against the city asking for an injunction of this particular tactic.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/7280464-Wolfe-v-City-of-Portland-Et-Al-Complaint.html

In this particular case, it was someone else they injured.
 
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These are Biden's thugs brutalizing people in the streets of Portland now. Let's see if he reins them in.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Federal police in Portland induce seizure in protestor by using a strobe light. Usually this is a tactic used by Proud Boys or other fascists in the area that discovered they could injure epileptic protestors this way.

Spoiler tagged because video shows rapid strobing lights.


Feds blanketed the streets with gas again.
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Feels like this would be a good time to remind people that the violent insurrections who invaded the Capitol were gently escorted from the crime scene and allowed to go home.
 
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