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Pardons

trustbutverify said:
No- Ford's pardon of Nixon included all possible crimes committed as President- including crimes he had not yet been charged with or convicted of.
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Right, but he was no longer POTUS at the time, Ford was. It was not for crimes not yet committed.

Not yet discovered and not yet charged for is not what preemptive refers to in this case.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Right, but he was no longer POTUS at the time, Ford was. It was not for crimes not yet committed.

Not yet discovered and not yet charged for is not what preemptive refers to in this case.
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8. No pardon can be pre-emptive. Only for crimes that have been committed and convicted in the past.
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Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged.

Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal.
 
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acbytesla said:
I'm really curious if Trump issues any pardons for cover. Will there be any African Americans? Will there be anyone who is poor?
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I'm expecting a mixed bag. Some good ones. Some bad ones. Some poor people. Some rich people. Some people close to Trump and some not at all.
 
trustbutverify said:
Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged.

Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal.
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You are correct. Presidential pardons should not be a Get Out Of Jail Free card which can be pulled out any time in the future. Nor can they be a shield or a Bail Out Free card against any ongoing legal action that might lead to conviction.

They should specifically be applicable only to someone who has been duly convicted and is awaiting sentencing, or is serving, or has served, their sentence.
 
trustbutverify said:
Norman Alexander can correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the highlighted meant the pardoned had to have been charged and convicted before the pardon is issued. I interpreted "preemptive", as covering crimes not yet discovered and/or charged.

Added: A pardon for crimes not yet committed would obviously be insane and, I assume, illegal.
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A poorly worded sentence?

However, on a news interview today it was said that none of the pardons like Nixon's had ever been tested in court. OTOH, it was noted there is a precedent set on the 4 occasions mentioned.
 
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Norman Alexander said:
You are correct. Presidential pardons should not be a Get Out Of Jail Free card which can be pulled out any time in the future. Nor can they be a shield or a Bail Out Free card against any ongoing legal action that might lead to conviction.

They should specifically be applicable only to someone who has been duly convicted and is awaiting sentencing, or is serving, or has served, their sentence.
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Agreed.
 
gypsyjackson said:
Why is Trump pardoning former Detroit Mayor Kilpatrick? Does he have to give any explanation (or does he choose to)?
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He does not have to give any reason. Usually no reason is given.

My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of.
 
Forbes reports 143 pardons. Not himself, or family, or Rudy.

Does include a pardon for Bannon. Elliott Broidy, who lobbied Trump on behalf of foreign governments. Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. Lil Wayne. Rapper Kodak Black. Sholam Weiss, serving a massively long sentence for an insurance fraud scheme a couple decades ago. Salomon Melgen, who ran a Medicare fraud scheme.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
I'm expecting a mixed bag. Some good ones. Some bad ones. Some poor people. Some rich people. Some people close to Trump and some not at all.
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I'm not. I'm expecting a lot of rich and connected individuals. Maybe cops that killed suspects.
 
DevilsAdvocate said:
He does not have to give any reason. Usually no reason is given.

My hunch is he pardoned Kilpatrick because Kilpatrick is guilty of many of the same crimes that Trump is guilty of.
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Looks like it.

Convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice. He was sentenced to four months in jail and was released on probation after serving 99 days.

On May 25, 2010, Kilpatrick was sentenced to eighteen months to five years in state prison for violating his probation,[3] and served time at the Oaks Correctional Facility in northwest Michigan. On March 11, 2013, he was convicted on 24 federal felony counts, including mail fraud, wire fraud, and racketeering.[4] On October 10, 2013, Kilpatrick was sentenced to 28 years in federal prison.[5] Kilpatrick is currently serving his sentence at the Federal Correctional Institution, Oakdale, in Oakdale, Louisiana. On January 20, 2021, President Donald Trump commuted his sentence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwame_Kilpatrick
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