Cont: Trump’s Coup - Part 2

[Beelzebuddy]

People have honestly started to buy into the mythology of the "I didn't say that using those exact words, therefore unless you respond to nothing but the exact words you're somehow doing something wrong.

Again inference is a thing. People are allowed to pick up for tone and context. I'll never understand when internet argumentatives up and decided that was something you could do.

That's always been the case, especially here. I can't count the arguments I've lost interest in when someone starts clutching their pearls and yelling "I did NOT say that, don't you DARE put words in my mouth!" There's just no way to salvage the conversation afterward.

 

[JoeMorgue]

That's always been the case, especially here. I can't count the arguments I've lost interest in when someone starts clutching their pearls and yelling "I did NOT say that, don't you DARE put words in my mouth!" There's just no way to salvage the conversation afterward.

Yep. It's the same act, every time.

Tom: "2+2, 1+3, 8-4, 2 squared, 2 x 2, the square root of 16..."
Dave: (Responds to Tom as if he said 'Four')
Tom: "I NEVER SAID FOUR! SHOW ME WHERE I SAID FOUR! DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH!"

 

[TheGoldcountry]

Exactly. Some Republicans will vote R just because they want lower taxes, are anti-immigrant, pro-gun rights and/or anti-abortion. But SOME are just plain stupid. We see it when they open their mouths and say stupid things like some of the things I posted earlier and what we saw in that video and others.

I know this is true, at least in my limited experience, as my community is full of them. The Republicans I deal with (including most of my family) think Trump is a clown, but leading up to the election, went "but look at the ALTERNATIVE!" as though Biden was Emperor Palpatine.

I'm convinced that the current wave of Republicans are riding high on successfully demonizing immigrants and minorities to white lunkheads who consistently vote against their own self-interests just to "stick it to the Commie libruls." Considering the demographics of this country will soon be evenly white/non-white, this situation is only going to get worse.

ETA:Also, I can remember the "liberals are going to take away our guns" BS as far back as I can remember, and since I'm almost fifty, I can't help but laugh at people who still say it with a straight face. Exactly when is this going to happen? When the NRA is pushing protections for fusion powered plasma rifles?

 

[varwoche]

They are not just one thing. This "they are just a bunch of dumb hicks" narrative diminishes them and it is, for that reason, extremely dangerous. If they are just a bunch of dumb hicks we don't have to do anything about them.

Blame Tom Lehrer



And Mel Brooks

 

[dudalb]

RE Dumb Hicks: You can be dumb but still be dangerous.
TO use a line from the Classic WW2 Fllm "Stalag 17":
"Just because the Germans are dumb does not mean they are stupid:,

 

[dudalb]

One of the leaders of the Oath Keepers has been arrested on charges connectee with the Insurrection

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/oath-keepers-capitol-riot-charges/index.htm

 

[Delvo]

Truly we are seeing here two versions of reality.

Just different parts or aspects of it. The people on the other side are just people, like you. Their brains mostly work the same way as yours so they come to their conclusions the same way people on your side do.

You said two groups are same when they are not same. Now you are denying that.

That would be true if having one thing in common meant having everything else in common too. But you already know it doesn't.

 

[HHellpop]

One of the leaders of the Oath Keepers has been arrested on charges connectee with the Insurrection

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/oath-keepers-capitol-riot-charges/index.htm

Borken link fixed:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/oath-keepers-capitol-riot-charges

ETA:Fascinating background for an FBI Special Agent:

I have a Ph.D in bio-organic chemistry, and have also received training and gained experience in a variety of criminal laws and procedures, including those involving drug distribution, white collar crime, and crimes of violence.

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/01/19/caldwell_complaint.pdf

 

[Stacyhs]

Maria Bartiromo claimed again on FOX that there were antifa infiltrators wearing MAGA hats among the Capitol rioters on Jan. 6th. This follows the same claim pushed by Tucker Carlson, Brit Hume and Laura Ingraham. This has been completely debunked by law enforcement officials but still Bartiromo repeats this lie.

 

[Paul2]

Maria Bartiromo claimed again on FOX that there were antifa infiltrators wearing MAGA hats among the Capitol rioters on Jan. 6th. This follows the same claim pushed by Tucker Carlson, Brit Hume and Laura Ingraham. This has been completely debunked by law enforcement officials but still Bartiromo repeats this lie.

In other news, the sun rose in the east today.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm reminded of the Onion Headline "American Communist Party 99% FBI Infiltrators."

Or the Far Side Cartoon where it's a bunch of wolves wearing sheeps costumes on a field "What a minute? Is anyone here a real sheep?"

 

[dudalb]

Borken link fixed:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/oath-keepers-capitol-riot-charges

ETA:Fascinating background for an FBI Special Agent:

http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2021/images/01/19/caldwell_complaint.pdf

Actually, Organic Chemistry is VERY importnat in Forensic science.
I ownder if he has hired for the FBI's labs (among the best in the world for forensics) and tranferred to be a special agent.

 

[Minoosh]

Borken link fixed:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/oath-keepers-capitol-riot-charges

Is that a typo, or a neologism?

 

[Stacyhs]

Originally Posted by Stacyhs
I guess it's all in how you interpret 'stupid'. I've known a couple people who had average IQ's but, lordy lordy, they were stooooopid. They had no common sense, were illogical and made the same mistakes over and over again. They just never learned. I had to cut ties with one of them because I became so frustrated over watching her make the same stupid mistakes over and over again that I just couldn't take it anymore.

I won’t stoop to “Argumentum Ad Dictionarium”, but it sure seems like you’re attempting to redefine “stupid” to mean someone who “makes mistakes” - in your example makes life choices you disagree with.

Since you have absolutely no idea what mistakes this person was repeatedly making and failing to ever learn from, your post is presumptuous.

It further seems like if I came up with a study showing the Capitol rioters were in fact of above average intelligence, you’d reply they were stupid regardless. As such, I don’t see any point in discussing it further.

But that's not what you did, is it? You presented an article that had nothing to do with what I was talking about. Your nose is just out of joint because I pointed that out so now you're coming up with some hypothetical situation and guessing what you think I'd reply. And then, you attempt to cut off further discussion based on the lack of merit of that imagined reply. That takes some chutzpah.

 

[HHellpop]

Is that a typo, or a neologism?

The latter.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=borken

 

[Stacyhs]

In other news, the sun rose in the east today.

And we're supposed to believe both sides are equally credible.

 

[HHellpop]

Actually, Organic Chemistry is VERY importnat in Forensic science.
I ownder if he has hired for the FBI's labs (among the best in the world for forensics) and tranferred to be a special agent.

Ah, that makes sense. I can't imagine someone going to school for all that time, and then saying, "Well, that was fun, what next? I know, I'll apply to the FBI!"

 

[Minoosh]

Maria Bartiromo claimed again on FOX that there were antifa infiltrators wearing MAGA hats among the Capitol rioters on Jan. 6th. This follows the same claim pushed by Tucker Carlson, Brit Hume and Laura Ingraham. This has been completely debunked by law enforcement officials but still Bartiromo repeats this lie.

Yet the participants that have received a little media coverage are all MAGA faithful - aren't they? Do the Fox personalities ever point out anyone with an antifa background?

I would like to think there were infiltrators all around. For example, I really hope federal law enforcement teams do have people reporting from the inside. Though I know that fairly often the cops have right-wing sympathies, I like to think that they would show some loyalty if it turns out that fellow officers are being killed in rightwing melees.

 

[HHellpop]

Yet the participants that have received a little media coverage are all MAGA faithful - aren't they? Do the Fox personalities ever point out anyone with an antifa background?

I would like to think there were infiltrators all around. For example, I really hope federal law enforcement teams do have people reporting from the inside. Though I know that fairly often the cops have right-wing sympathies, I like to think that they would show some loyalty if it turns out that fellow officers are being killed in rightwing melees.

I have read a few articles that say that the "blue wall of silence" has cracked quite a bit since Jan 6. There are officers reporting other officers for their participation in the attack on the Capitol.

 

[Ladewig]

Truly we are seeing here two versions of reality.

Just different parts or aspects of it. The people on the other side are just people, like you. Their brains mostly work the same way as yours so they come to their conclusions the same way people on your side do.

.

Yes and no.

I say yes because I frequently tell posters on other boards, if two groups have completely different values then they will look at a single issue and come up with completely different ideas of what to do. So, yes. The other side’s brains are not inherently flawed.

On the other hand, we saw seven (?) different US intelligence and law enforcement agencies (and a bunch of European intelligence agencies) say Russia interfered in 2016 and Trump said no, they are all wrong - I looked Putin in the eye and he says Russia wasn’t involved. If Trump says, “I’m right and everybody else is wrong - they are all conspiring against me. Believe only what I say and believe nothing you read in newspapers,” then folks who say, “OK. I’m on board with you President Trump” are making a pretty big error in thinking.

If one holds a belief in a CT and to avoid re-examining one’s conclusions one gets to the point that one has to accept that Republican governors, secretaries of state, attorneys general, hundreds of Republican poll workers, the DOJ, the FBI, VP Pence, and a significant percentage of the judicial branch all conspired to ensure Trump’s votes were switched while all down-ticket races were reported accurately, then, it is hard to accept that one’s thinking is reliable or correct.