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Split Thread A second impeachment

She's in for an education how a bill you want to pass goes through a bunch of steps before it's even, if ever, brought to the floor for debate. That is if she's even managed to get a legible bill drawn up.

From what I've seen of her, she isn't the one that seems most likely to be a master of parliamentary procedure.

Should be good for some entertainment when they do occasionally let her speak.
 
DO YOU HAVE A GODDAMN POINT YOU PLAN ON GETTING TO?

A totally unrelated, unhinged, poorly formatted, stream of consciousness rant of Alt-Right 101 cliches about "progressives" isn't the response a sane person has to the President launching a coup.


It's rather a problem of intellectual 'illiteracy' from your part I'd say (and others for that matter). And not ultimately a clear incapacity to respect different opinions. You don't get that the problem is much bigger than Trump do you? Trump won the election in large part because he was seen by many as the best existing solution to the excesses of 'progressivism' not because he is a moral or intellectual light of some sort. Where are you living, there is a cultural war raging wildly for about 30 years now (mainly fuelled by the 'progressives' , who by the way claim total victory lately).

Even if Trump disappears via the tactics used by the Democrats, massively penetrated by 'progressivism', the rift in the American society will be still there, with other Trump like politicians ready to take over anyways. Trumpism is not exactly your main danger. But there will be also a dangerous precedent, very likely to invite massive 'progressive' interference with free speech (upon the model we saw in the last 30 years, much less can be openly said these days, even if legitimate) which could make basically anyone, no matter how rational, a target in the future (even the First Amendment will be less and less effective in defending free speech). In the end it's way less about Trump as it is about free speech, already severely weakened in the last decades.

In my view the Democrats lost a good opportunity at least to try to marginalize Trump in the eyes of his electoral base via more realistic accusations (showing for example how he is rather against democracy, without 'insurrection' and other radical accusations) ; something which to not make him appear from the beginning as a victim of the 'progressive' thought and without creating a dangerous precedent in what free speech is concerned.

If I were to be rhetorical I could easily use your kind of phraseology (you have little else I'm afraid), I could easily say for example that maybe you need to leave behind the extreme-Left ideology you expose (at least at the unconscious level) to understand what I say. I don't do it because i get your ultimate point, I just don't find it the best solution in the existing situation.
 
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Mitch McConnell opened the Senate today with speech that included this statement:

The mob was fed lies, they were provoked by the President and other powerful people.

An unequivocal statement from McConnell that hopefully indicates that Senate Republicans are going to take this seriously.

Edited to Add: Almost forgot to post the video

 
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Such a line would be a crossing the Rubicon, die is cast, pick your metaphor moment... in the old days.

But we're in a post fact world where McConnell very well could just go "Nope, never said that" in 2 days and 90% of his followers would believe it.
 
Such a line would be a crossing the Rubicon, die is cast, pick your metaphor moment... in the old days.

But we're in a post fact world where McConnell very well could just go "Nope, never said that" in 2 days and 90% of his followers would believe it.

I'm going to stay optimistic and hope that, having plenty of time to consider his words for this speech, he wouldn't have said them if he wasn't going to back them up.
 
i think mcconnell is leaning pretty hard into impeaching. it makes the most sense for him to do so also. trump is perhaps the biggest threat the GOP faces
 
i think mcconnell is leaning pretty hard into impeaching. it makes the most sense for him to do so also. trump is perhaps the biggest threat the GOP faces

I think (hope) he knows that Trump and the GOP as separate... errr brands have no chance against the DNC. I just remain skeptical.

I hope the Democrats are aware of the same problem. Neither the Centrists nor the Progressives are big enough to counter the GOP on their own.
 
Such a line would be a crossing the Rubicon, die is cast, pick your metaphor moment... in the old days.

But we're in a post fact world where McConnell very well could just go "Nope, never said that" in 2 days and 90% of his followers would believe it.

I can definitely think of some ways for McConnell to talk his way out of actually doing anything without reversing himself.

he didn't call an emergency meeting of the Senate, which he could have if he actually wanted to get Trump out. I could easily see him spinning up some BS reason that impeachment after Trump is out of office as being improper or whatever. This allows him to talk a big game, but not actually do anything.

Then again, maybe McConnell doesn't want to have to deal with a spiteful Trump in the 2024 primary. An impeachment with a bar on public office would put a bow on it. Sure, there would be blowback, but if he does it soon he has 4 years to let that die down.
 
I can definitely think of some ways for McConnell to talk his way out of actually doing anything without reversing himself.

he didn't call an emergency meeting of the Senate, which he could have if he actually wanted to get Trump out. I could easily see him spinning up some BS reason that impeachment after Trump is out of office as being improper or whatever. This allows him to talk a big game, but not actually do anything.

Then again, maybe McConnell doesn't want to have to deal with a spiteful Trump in the 2024 primary. An impeachment with a bar on public office would put a bow on it. Sure, there would be blowback, but if he does it soon he has 4 years to let that die down.

I too suspect that McConnell will find some way to weasel out of actual impeachment, perhaps contending as people so often do when a criminal is caught and tried, that T****'s loss was punishment enough, and we should let him slink away for the sake of national healing or some such rubbish. He can fudge the future office issue by simply presuming that T**** is getting old and senile and it wouldn't happen anyway.

Then again, maybe (one must remain foolishly optimistic these days) he's counting on revelations about the conspiracy and whatnot to increase, and waiting until people are more tuned to the reality of how much responsibility T**** has in it all, and until his impotent ranting and growing craziness become more tiresome.

Of course what is really needed is to give T**** a definitive, debilitating and humiliating smackdown, so as to free the Republican Party of his influence. I think though there may be riots and flashes of pernicious influence for a while, the only way the party will ultimately flourish is to pull that element out by the roots. I think if the leadership of the party were to get together and smash the T**** element outright, there would be a lot of sore butts and nasty words, but by 2024 the leader would be defanged even if he stays out of prison. But I rather doubt McConnell has the cojones to do that.
 
I think certain posters would benefit by coming down from their pedestals, foregoing their verbose posts peppered with phrases intended to impress us with their intellectual superiority but end up having the opposite effect.
 
Mitch McConnell opened the Senate today with speech that included this statement:



An unequivocal statement from McConnell that hopefully indicates that Senate Republicans are going to take this seriously.

Edited to Add: Almost forgot to post the video


I mentioned this in another thread, but I was in my car listening to Hannity today. Hannity wants McConnell thrown out as Minority Leader because of that speech. Of course, being Hannity, he had to also start backdating a whole list of other sins McConnell has committed against Trump, and failure to take on the Forces of Evil (i.e. anyone who doesn't do what Trump tells them.)
 
i think mcconnell is leaning pretty hard into impeaching. it makes the most sense for him to do so also. trump is perhaps the biggest threat the GOP faces

I think (hope) he knows that Trump and the GOP as separate... errr brands have no chance against the DNC. I just remain skeptical.

I hope the Democrats are aware of the same problem. Neither the Centrists nor the Progressives are big enough to counter the GOP on their own.

I was assuming he had enough ego to despise Trump and the fact that he incited a lynch mob that would have got him.
 
It's rather a problem of intellectual 'illiteracy' from your part I'd say (and others for that matter). And not ultimately a clear incapacity to respect different opinions. You don't get that the problem is much bigger than Trump do you? Trump won the election in large part because he was seen by many as the best existing solution to the excesses of 'progressivism' not because he is a moral or intellectual light of some sort. Where are you living, there is a cultural war raging wildly for about 30 years now (mainly fuelled by the 'progressives' , who by the way claim total victory lately).

Even if Trump disappears via the tactics used by the Democrats, massively penetrated by 'progressivism', the rift in the American society will be still there, with other Trump like politicians ready to take over anyways. Trumpism is not exactly your main danger. But there will be also a dangerous precedent, very likely to invite massive 'progressive' interference with free speech (upon the model we saw in the last 30 years, much less can be openly said these days, even if legitimate) which could make basically anyone, no matter how rational, a target in the future (even the First Amendment will be less and less effective in defending free speech). In the end it's way less about Trump as it is about free speech, already severely weakened in the last decades.

In my view the Democrats lost a good opportunity at least to try to marginalize Trump in the eyes of his electoral base via more realistic accusations (showing for example how he is rather against democracy, without 'insurrection' and other radical accusations) ; something which to not make him appear from the beginning as a victim of the 'progressive' thought and without creating a dangerous precedent in what free speech is concerned.
If I were to be rhetorical I could easily use your kind of phraseology (you have little else I'm afraid), I could easily say for example that maybe you need to leave behind the extreme-Left ideology you expose (at least at the unconscious level) to understand what I say. I don't do it because i get your ultimate point, I just don't find it the best solution in the existing situation.
All this pretentious blather about "progressivism" and "free speech," and you still don't seem to have grasped a couple of very basic points.

1) Have you ever even bothered to read the article I linked above from NPR which contains the text of the article of impeachment, showing what Trump is actually being impeached for? I suspect not, or you'd understand that the Jan 6 speech is not the sole basis for it- the basis for impeachment is a totality of conduct that includes the speech but is not limited to it. Since the November election, he has brought courts cases alleging fraud without showing any evidence for it, called Georgia election officials trying to get them to "find the votes" he needed to overturn the results there, and tweeted continuous outright lies about fraud that he can allege in that forum but not prove in any other. This is a pattern of misconduct- and it's hard to see how Democrats can do any better by way of "showing how he is against democracy" than his own actions (including words) in trying to overturn a legal and fair democratic election. Since impeachment is the only remedy available for a President's misconduct, I don't see why this opportunity should be lost.

2) You have got the most thumbless grasp* of the concept of "free speech" if you really think it includes a right to freely lie without consequence. In fact, I think a case could be made that a President actually has less freedom of speech, in being in a position where his words have potentially more consequence. There just is not any sense of "free speech" that covers a multitude of lies from someone like Trump in a case like his.

*I saw this phrase in an op-ed piece I read recently- I can't remember who wrote it, but I think it was actually a conservative writer excoriating Trump, not some "progressive." Anyway, it was an expression that really struck me for aptness, so I'm borrowing it here. I'll give it back when I'm done with it.
 
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I'm going to stay optimistic and hope that, having plenty of time to consider his words for this speech, he wouldn't have said them if he wasn't going to back them up.


I think you misspelled "childishly naive".

McConnell's ability (if not propensity) to backpedal on or simply deny anything he may have said or done which might become inconvenient to him is well-established. Possibly even legendary.

Many statements like this are simply uttered to put them somewhere on the record where they can be cherry-picked when needed and disregarded when they aren't. Kind of like when a Trump statement sticks in a line about being for peaceful demonstrations, buried in all of the incitement to violence. Supporters can carve out the one phrase and say, "See! He's against violence.".
 
From what I've seen of her, she isn't the one that seems most likely to be a master of parliamentary procedure.

Should be good for some entertainment when they do occasionally let her speak.

I'm picturing Ivanka trying to join conversations at the G20 or similar venues. Or Donnie Jr trying to sound relevant and tough on stage last Wed before the riots.
 
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Mitch McConnell opened the Senate today with speech that included this statement:

An unequivocal statement from McConnell that hopefully indicates that Senate Republicans are going to take this seriously.

Edited to Add: Almost forgot to post the video

Mitch is having an awakening that if he is to have any power at all for the next two years he better start kissing Schumer's ass. That means pretending to be reasonable as he tries to talk Schumer out of eliminating the 60-40 threshold to pass bills. This is the same ******* who rammed his foot down the throats of Democrats over packing the federal courts with Federalists.

Wake up Schumer, he's going to burn you if you think he's negotiating in good faith.
 
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In the very next lines of the speech, McConnel says that Biden will be inaugurated and then the country will move on...

He could have said that there would be consequences for Trump and the “powerful people” but didn’t.

I think nothing will come of this.
 
Mitch is having an awakening that if he is to have any power at all for the next two years he better start kissing Schumer's ass. That means pretending to be reasonable as he tries to talk Schumer out of eliminating the 60-40 threshold to pass bills. This is the same ******* who rammed his foot down the throats of Democrats over packing the federal courts with Federalists.

Wake up Schumer, he's going to burn you if you think he's negotiating in good faith.

i think mitch knows that in 4 years trump has cost the GOP both houses of congress and the presidency. i'd be surprised if he felt there was something to gain by protecting him and keeping his leadership of the party intact.
 

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