Will Trump pardon himself?

Will Trump pardon himself?


  • Total voters
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  • Poll closed .
Okay, so here's a strategy.

Every single campaign out there has, at some point, committed an accidental breach of some sort of election law.
....
So, Biden takes office, and issues himself a pardon for a single such incidence, and then instructs the DoJ to go ahead and charge him for this single instance anyways.
...
At which point Biden submits a brief agreeing with the DoJ, and asks the court to rule against him, establishing the precedent that the self-pardon is invalid. Biden pays a nominal fine for the technical violation of election law, and then Trump is left wide open for Federal charges.
Here in Canada, I think the prime minister has the ability to ask the court to rule on certain constitutional issues BEFORE they are actually brought to the supreme court through the appeals process.

I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have the same sort of mechanism in place. (or maybe they do, they just don't use it.)
 
Here in Canada, I think the prime minister has the ability to ask the court to rule on certain constitutional issues BEFORE they are actually brought to the supreme court through the appeals process.

I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have the same sort of mechanism in place. (or maybe they do, they just don't use it.)

Article iii section ii limits their jurisdiction to "cases and controversies." I believe that is the part that has been understood to restrict them from answering questions.
 
Here in Canada, I think the prime minister has the ability to ask the court to rule on certain constitutional issues BEFORE they are actually brought to the supreme court through the appeals process.

I wonder why the U.S. doesn't have the same sort of mechanism in place. (or maybe they do, they just don't use it.)

The short answer is that in the USA, the court system has always been very reactive as opposed to being proactive.
 
There is no "technical."

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

That's it. That's the whole thing. That's all it says. There's no technicality beyond that.

Everything else is either tradition or someone's interpretation.
ON the other hand, back in the 1970s (when Nixon was all the rage) the Department of Justice stated the following:

"Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the President cannot pardon himself".

I think their argument is that even though the section on pardons doesn't say anything about self-pardons, a pardon has the president acting as a judge of sorts.

Some legal opinions. From: CNBC

Against pardoning himself:
"The better view is that a ban on self-pardons is implicit. Giving the president the power to be a judge in his own criminal case is inconsistent with this being a rule of law society"

"... much of constitutional law is based on reasoning from the underlying design of the Constitution and the structures it creates, and a presidential self-pardon is so radically inconsistent with the Constitution’s commitments to (1) limited government; (2) the separation of powers; (3) and elected officials being accountable to the rule of law"

"In US v. Nixon, the Court basically said that Nixon as the subject of a criminal investigation did not speak for the government and therefore could not withhold the tapes from the prosecutor who did. This case teaches that the president cannot act in an official capacity to benefit himself against an authorized criminal prosecution."

"A pardon is by its very nature when one person pardons another. The point is, the constitution uses the word pardon, and a pardon is by very nature a situation that involves two people"

In favor of pardoning himself:
"There is no expressed limitation governing whom the president may or may not pardon. Therefore it seems quite clear to me that the President may pardon himself"
 
Well yeah but a lot of "Of course we didn't spell it out because we never thought anyone would be stupid enough to do it or contrarian enough to defend it" stuff just isn't anymore because of Trump.

"Nobody tried it before Trump so there's no precedence" is a bad thing to pin our hopes on.
 
Well, as I said, there's no apparent downside to the attempt to self-pardon, so even if it's overwhelmingly likely to be shot down, there's no reason not to try.
 
Well, as I said, there's no apparent downside to the attempt to self-pardon, so even if it's overwhelmingly likely to be shot down, there's no reason not to try.

If there is an upside to Trump it's going to be that after he's gone there be nothing left for someone to "try" to do for the first time.
 
Well, as I said, there's no apparent downside to the attempt to self-pardon, so even if it's overwhelmingly likely to be shot down, there's no reason not to try.
Well, as I suggested before, there is one potential downside I can think of...

That it might possibly affect him negatively on state-level charges.

Something like:
Jury Member in New York (on Trump's tax fraud charges): "I was going to find him not guilty, but his pardon means he must have done something wrong"
 
Well, as I said, there's no apparent downside to the attempt to self-pardon, so even if it's overwhelmingly likely to be shot down, there's no reason not to try.

Quite true.

In fact, it may even be rather amusing to see an ex-President Trump sue the U. S. Constitution for not giving him the power to over-ride the U. S. Constitution as former President Trump wanted to do.
 
Well, in that case the question is, does the paperwork for issuing a pardon have to come from an official white house lawyer?

Could Trump get someone like Rudy Guilianni to write up the pardon? Or could Trump just take a copy of Nixon's pardon, replace Nixon's name with his own, and sign it? (Well, changing a few things like the dates and whatnot).

No he couldn’t - I really mean that: there is no way he could find a copy of that pardon, print it out or even photocopy it, cross out the relevant bits and put in the date and his name all on his own.
 
He's probably in the Lincoln Bedroom pardoning himself right now. (I suppose that's what the kids are calling it these days.)
 
There is no "technical."

"The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

That's it. That's the whole thing. That's all it says. There's no technicality beyond that.

Everything else is either tradition or someone's interpretation.

From what I remember hearing, this is only on the federal level. He's still on the hook for any state crime.
 
Well, as I said, there's no apparent downside to the attempt to self-pardon, so even if it's overwhelmingly likely to be shot down, there's no reason not to try.

If he pre-emptively pardons himself, people (maybe even prosecutors) will argue that he knew he violated the law. Why pardon yourself if you did nothing wrong? Trump's counter-argument will be that it was to shield himself from bogus prosecution, but he can defend himself against a bogus prosecution in court. He's flooding the zone. It could buy him time, but it's also more evidence that he abuses the legal system. He's also very likely to lose, which he'll spin into a persecution narrative. After all, the Constitutional scholars on Parler think the Vice President can choose the President, so a self-pardon is not far-fetched.
 
He'll try, it will be challenged and overturned. Even Republicans don't want a President who is totally above the law, because he might be a Democrat.
 
Are there any formal requirements for a presidential pardon?

I so hope there are, because Trump's crack legal team would screw it up.
You're joking I assume but note that White House counsel Pat Cipollone is one of the people not happy with Trumps actions on Jan 6. If there is any kind of specific paperwork or process required he may not be cooperating. So your question is interesting. Does anyone know? I know Trump has tweeted pardons before but did those actually count as the official record or is there some requirement more than Trump just tweeting or sharpieing it?
 

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