Will Trump pardon himself?

[Segnosaur]

Someone posted this article in another thread, but I thought it would be more relevant here...

From: Yahoo
After last week's assault on the U.S. Capitol by Trump supporters, right after Trump urged them to march on the Capitol, Trump is not in the pardoning mood. "The president has been warned, David, by some of his lawyers that if he goes ahead and pardons himself, he could be more vulnerable to civil lawsuits, including from some of those injured in the Capitol riot, because a self-pardon would be seen as an admission that he did something wrong that he would need to be pardoned for," (Reporter Johnathan) Karl said. "The president is angry, he has not taken that well, and I am told that he is now saying that he doesn't want to see pardons for anybody. So the attitude seems to be: 'If I can't get a pardon, then nobody else should get one, either.'"

Earlier, someone suggested Trump might try self pardoning because there is "no risk". Well, looks like there might be a risk because Trump could get sued by MAGAchuds who fell for his claims.

 

[Crossbow]

I have to wonder if Trump is aware that even if Trump pardons successfully pardons himself:

1) By issuing, and then accepting a self-pardon, Trump is essentially admitting that he committed a crime.

2) Pardons do not cover civil issues like law suits and debts. Therefore, Trump will still be on the hook for the hundreds of millions that he owes to other people. Also, it is quite possible that he will face law suits resulting from the numerous lies that he has told and the insurrection that he recently caused.

3) Pardons do not cover state crimes. And Trump is under serious investigation in New York right now for some of the crimes that he committed there.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Sadly it's probably a case of "No I'm pardoning myself but not admitting guilt because I say so" and it maybe still (much less certain now than even a few days ago to be fair) working on his base.

 

[Segnosaur]

I have to wonder if Trump is aware that even if Trump pardons successfully pardons himself:

1) By issuing, and then accepting a self-pardon, Trump is essentially admitting that he committed a crime.

2) Pardons do not cover civil issues like law suits and debts. Therefore, Trump will still be on the hook for the hundreds of millions that he owes to other people. Also, it is quite possible that he will face law suits resulting from the numerous lies that he has told and the insurrection that he recently caused.

If he wasn't aware before, he might be now. (The article I posted above points out that Trump may have stopped granting all pardons because he is having a temper tantrum when lawyers explained the risk to him.)

 

[Segnosaur]

Sadly it's probably a case of "No I'm pardoning myself but not admitting guilt because I say so" and it maybe still (much less certain now than even a few days ago to be fair) working on his base.

May work on his base... but in courts, it has to work on the judge and jury. And I am sure that they will be trying to screen out any MAGAchuds during jury selection.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Sadly it's probably a case of "No I'm pardoning myself but not admitting guilt because I say so"[…]

Which ought to be known as the Alford Pardon.

Dave

 

[Crossbow]

If he wasn't aware before, he might be now. (The article I posted above points out that Trump may have stopped granting all pardons because he is having a temper tantrum when lawyers explained the risk to him.)

Wow!

That sure explains a great many things.

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

I have to wonder if Trump is aware that even if Trump pardons successfully pardons himself:

1) By issuing, and then accepting a self-pardon, Trump is essentially admitting that he committed a crime..

A lot of people say this, but is it well settled law? And even if it is, does it matter to Trump? His followers won't know it or believe it if he tells them not to.

 

[Segnosaur]

1) By issuing, and then accepting a self-pardon, Trump is essentially admitting that he committed a crime..

A lot of people say this, but is it well settled law?

No it isn't.

There was a case (Burdick v. United States) which people think makes that insinuation, but that was more a case of "can you reject a pardon" rather than "does it imply guilt".

Heck, the fact that pardons can be issued because a person was exonerated due to new evidence shows that Pardons don't have to imply guilt (at least in a legal sense.)

Now, that doesn't mean there can't be repercussions.... even though accepting a pardon isn't a legal admission of guilt, it still may look bad to a jury, should someone be brought up on state level or civil charges.

See: Washington Post

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

There was a case (Burdick v. United States) which people think makes that insinuation, but that was more a case of "can you reject a pardon" rather than "does it imply guilt".

Yep. That's all I'm aware of too.

 

[dirtywick]

can’t think of a reason why he wouldn’t. toothless Mike pence warning him not to

 

[Suddenly]

Trump worrying about how it would affect a civil case seems wildly optimistic. For a whole bunch of reasons the chances of him coming out of this with any assets that aren't judgement proof and/or totally hidden are slim and none.

Once the banks cut him off, he might struggle to pay his lawyers, were he willing to find someone to take his money. If those election lawsuits are any indication the people willing to help him are so bad that default would be the smarter choice. I mean, assuming his attorneys don't default him by accident by accidently filing their grocery list instead of an answer.

 

[JoeMorgue]

I'm also wondering how many years Trump is thinking he has left.

I really do wonder what consequences he's worrying about at this point.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm also wondering how many years Trump is thinking he has left.

I really do wonder what consequences he's worrying about at this point.

Interesting question, does he comprehend his own mortality or not.

 

[Suddenly]

Interesting question, does he comprehend his own mortality or not.

No chance. Especially after he got COVID and was fine. He's a walking survival fallacy.

Consequences are not his thing. Which is why he's flying into a rage over having his toys taken away instead of realizing that he should be more worried about being sent to his room.

 

[Segnosaur]

Trump worrying about how it would affect a civil case seems wildly optimistic. For a whole bunch of reasons the chances of him coming out of this with any assets that aren't judgement proof and/or totally hidden are slim and none.

WE might recognize that his financial empire will be harmed. But with Trump's massive ego, he might still believe that he'll still come out of this with his wealth intact.

 

[Trebuchet]

I'm just wondering why Trump hasn't pardoned his kids yet.

He's insisting they pay him for it.

 

[sarge]

Lawyers, including Giuliani, are charging tremendous fees for securing tRump pardons*

* heard on NPR on the way home from the grocery store.

 

[Trebuchet]

He's insisting they pay him for it.

Lawyers, including Giuliani, are charging tremendous fees for securing tRump pardons*

* heard on NPR on the way home from the grocery store.

If I had $2 Million, I could get a pardon from Trump. If I did anything that needed a pardon. And if I had $2 Million.

 

[alfaniner]

Trump to issue around 100 pardons and commutations Tuesday, sources say

Well... we'll see what happens.