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Ed 737 Max Crashes (was Shutdown caused Boeing crash.)

Trebuchet said:
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What's been needed for quite a long time is an actual replacement. Which I was working on there 15 years ago and still has not been able to make the "business case" work.
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The 737s were designed many years ago. Technology has changed since then. The planes have not. Trouble is, if they produced a modern plane it would require the re-training of all the pilots. This is expensive. Not to mention many of the ground crew.
 
And the next step in getting the 737Max back in the air has taken place... the first passenger flight (although it was only a demo flight, rather than having it in regular service.)

From: CBS News
Wednesday was a big day for American Airlines and Boeing as it was the first time since March 2019 that passengers flew on a 737 Max

American Airlines seems to be rather eager to get the 737Max back in service.

A few other notes:

- Actual regular service (on at least one route) is supposed to start Dec 29

- American Airlines will allow passengers to switch flights (at no cost) if they are not comfortable flying on the Max.
 
Yeah, it's also a cost saver on fuel. And that also makes it more climate friendly so society at large also has an interest.


Gotta hope they get it right this time. And also got to hope they get lucky because any incident for any reason is going to be a major confidence setback.
 
I would say "I can only hope they get bankrupt, since there is no other way they would get punished for killing 600+ people"...

...but I realized those actually responsible would simply fall on gold parachutes into high positions in other companies. Only ones that would get screwed would be lowly grunts, as usual.

Yay capitalism.

No wonder common historical recourse is of "Rich. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." variety.
 
Mader Levap said:
I would say "I can only hope they get bankrupt, since there is no other way they would get punished for killing 600+ people"...

...but I realized those actually responsible would simply fall on gold parachutes into high positions in other companies. Only ones that would get screwed would be lowly grunts, as usual.

Yay capitalism.

No wonder common historical recourse is of "Rich. Tree. Rope. Some assembly required." variety.
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Still a better love story than Twilight.
 
Mader Levap said:
Are you always that butthurt when someone comments about certain economic system (with serious unaddressed problems) that is not as good as beneficiaries of said system think? : rolleyes :
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Not really ever butthurt. Just amused at how butthurt people get about the fact that every attempt to address the unaddressed problems results in an even worse system (sometimes by orders of magnitude) than we get from just letting it ride.
 
theprestige said:
American Airlines seems to be rather eager to get the 737Max back in service.
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If my business depended on recouping such a major capital investment, I'd want it back in service as soon as I responsibly could, too.
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I agree that they have a large investment in the 737 Max, and it makes sense they would want to use them. But, they also have to deal with public perception of the plane, and saving money on operating a fleet of 737Maxes may not help much if it scares away potential customers.

Overall, it probably makes sense from a financial perspective. I am just saying there are risks involved.
 
I don't think most passengers even know what aircraft type they are on. And if they look at the seat pocket information card, it'll say 737-8 so they'll feel safe that they aren't on a Max.
 
Trebuchet said:
I don't think most passengers even know what aircraft type they are on. And if they look at the seat pocket information card, it'll say 737-8 so they'll feel safe that they aren't on a Max.
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I always know what make and model of airliner I will be flying on. When I go to the USA next year (Covid permitting) I will be making sure that I won't be flying on a Max, because I have zero confidence that Boeing can get this right.
 
smartcooky said:
I always know what make and model of airliner I will be flying on. When I go to the USA next year (Covid permitting) I will be making sure that I won't be flying on a Max, because I have zero confidence that Boeing can get this right.
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A flight from New Zealand to Los Angeles on AA costs about $6,000. Airline profit margins are about 9%. That's about $540 you're threatening to keep out of the owners' pockets.
 
Not sure why you're reacting poorly to this. You used present tense phrasing for your ballpark estimate. And it seems to be way optimistic for the present. Probably on the wrong side of zero. That seems significant enough to point out. And now that I know how you got that number it also now seems reasonable to make the observation that citing recent pre-2020 numbers and or projections from that time frame isn't going to work. Covid knocked those numbers and projections off the rails.

And when I asked I didn't know that you were wrong*. There are competing things going on here. Revenue is way down. But airlines are also contracting their schedules in response to that. It's possible they could still manage to maintain a positive profit margin but on reduced revenues if they respond properly. That would have been an interesting and positive thing to have heard if it was the case.

* Don't actually know that your number is wrong for this year yet, but I'd bet against it. That's likely to be a dream number for a while.
 
RecoveringYuppy said:
Not sure why you're reacting poorly to this. You used present tense phrasing for your ballpark estimate. And it seems to be way optimistic for the present. Probably on the wrong side of zero. That seems significant enough to point out. And now that I know how you got that number it also now seems reasonable to make the observation that citing recent pre-2020 numbers and or projections from that time frame isn't going to work. Covid knocked those numbers and projections off the rails.

And when I asked I didn't know that you were wrong*. There are competing things going on here. Revenue is way down. But airlines are also contracting their schedules in response to that. It's possible they could still manage to maintain a positive profit margin but on reduced revenues if they respond properly. That would have been an interesting and positive thing to have heard if it was the case.

* Don't actually know that your number is wrong for this year yet, but I'd bet against it. That's likely to be a dream number for a while.
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This seems like a poor reaction on your part. I wasn't trying to give an economically-accurate description of airline profits in the current time. I was trying to give a general sense of what this kind of individual boycott would look like. I make a few unstated assumptions, such as airlines operating more or less normally, which isn't true right now, but is likely to be true when Covid permits smartcooky to travel next year. I think leaving some of my assumptions unstated is probably fine for what I was doing.

Instead of thinking of this as a specific claim that needs to be debunked, think of this as a ballpark figure that could be further refined by anyone who's interested in a more precise solution.
 
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I wasn't setting out to debunk it. And I didn't question that it was fine for what you were doing. I just asked you what time frame it was for or whether you dropped a minus sign because it seemed to either be a number from a different time or the opposite of what is happening now. Now I know what it is.
 
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