2020 United States presidential election - Conspiracy theories, alleged fraud, etc

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Cosmic Yak said:
Yeah, moving on is not really the best way to handle this.
Can I suggest that it might be more productive to re-evaluate your opinion of the sources that you relied on, which were so spectacularly wrong, and also consider the cognitive biases that led you to trust them in the first place?

Nothing wrong with a bit of reflection and re-examination. That's how you learn stuff, and, as Meadmaker points out, enables you to avoid making the same kinds of mistake in the future.
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Why start now? Look at how much attention he’s getting from the grown-ups on this forum.
 
sphenisc said:
There's no sound on the recorded video. So there's no evidence other than the testimony that I'm aware of. It seems at least possible that an instruction to the cutters
may have been misinterpreted as an instruction to everyone in the room.
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Agreed. Simple miscommunication.



I think it's far more like that the cause was poor training and miscommunication than anyone being a moron but whatever. It nevertheless allowed counting to continue without watchers being present. Georgia State law may be fine with that, but that doesn't mean that Georgians don't recognise it as an opportunity for fraud and expect a closing the loophole in future.
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If you require poll watchers to be present in order to conduct the business of the state, then either party can stop the counting by refusing to show up. That is a far bigger problem than non-partisan poll workers carrying out their business with only video surveillance and no human surveillance.

I mean, we do acknowledge that there was video surveillance and not a single person watching that video can conclusively point to where the fraud is happening. So how would in-person surveillance have been any different?
 
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Dave Rogers said:
So, another classic case of pro-Trump election watchers being too lazy and stupid to find out how the election worked, then too lazy and stupid to stay around to watch a process they were perfectly welcome to stay for, and then crying foul when they saw anything going on that they didn't understand, which was basically everything? Colour me unsurprised; that seems to be the whole truth behind absolutely every allegation of poll rigging so far.

Dave
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I find it striking how much the election conspiracists sound like the moon landing deniers. They simply point to anything they don’t understand and say, “Fraud!” Or they whip out some bit of statistical terminology, and say, “there! That proves it!” Like the moon landing deniers saying, “F=MA, therefore the lunar module wouldn’t have worked.”

Amen, of course, there is the old reliable method of simply pulling stuff out of assorted orifices.
 
RolandRat said:
Is this "any day now" like the "any day now" the alien crowd keep shouting about "disclosure"?
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No, it's Bubba parroting a criticism of the Q-nut chant "The Storm is Coming."

Of course, no storm every came, and his only thought it to childishly chant his critics words back at them, sort of an "I know you are but what am I."

"Any day now credules," is another example of this lack of originality. In fact, he doesn't seem capable of posting anything original; his posts are almost completely cut and paste, many times without attribution.
 
sphenisc said:
The manner in which they're counted is the evidence that they may be fraudulent.

The claim is that ballot counting took place while there were no watchers in the room, that's the impropriety. If the ballots weren't fraudulent then an alternative explanation is required for why they were counted without watchers present.
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I noted this in another thread where it came up. The good thing about this claim is that it deals with specific people who are easily identifiable. We, by which I mean the appropriate lawyers, investigators, judges, whatever, can simply ask them what was going on. At least we aren't dealing with some shadowy, "I saw a suspicious looking guy, but I don't remember where." scenario. All the people in that video should be very easy to identify.

As I also noted, that means Rudy is making a specific accusation of voter fraud against a specific person. That could result in some interesting litigation of its own.
 
Bubba said:
What is the word for pretending you know the outcome before it is knowable?
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What's unknowable about 306 - 232? Do you honestly think that the election won't be certified in 4 days? There is no credible evidence for any significant voter fraud in this election; even Trump's toady Barr admits this. What is unknowable here Bubba?
 
Meadmaker said:
As I also noted, that means Rudy is making a specific accusation of voter fraud against a specific person. That could result in some interesting litigation of its own.
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As far as I know, this is a first for this whole debacle. You're right, that will be interesting.
 
Bubba said:
Any day now credule
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The man quarterbacking this effort might have possibly **** his pants during a public hearing this week, and I personally can’t get enough of your dedication to this delusion.
 
sts60 said:
I find it striking how much the election conspiracists sound like the moon landing deniers. They simply point to anything they don’t understand and say, “Fraud!” Or they whip out some bit of statistical terminology, and say, “there! That proves it!” Like the moon landing deniers saying, “F=MA, therefore the lunar module wouldn’t have worked.”

Amen, of course, there is the old reliable method of simply pulling stuff out of assorted orifices.
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It’s basically the same thing that a lot of CTs have in common. Changing the game from “Did X happen?” to “X happened, how do we prove it?”. They look a lot alike, as they both try to figure out what happened using the same available data, but just changing the name of the game has enormous implications. The biggest of course, is that in the second game, innocent explanations are tossed aside as dead ends, since they do not get you closer to the goal.
 
sphenisc said:
Video evidence, as opposed to talking heads, of electoral improprieties from the Georgia Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing.

Starts about 11 minutes in.

https://youtu.be/xg1JnzBqAkk
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This seems to be a case of only evaluating one possibility (workers were engaging in fraud) without considering other possible explanations of what they were doing. As discussed in the other thread, it should not be difficult to identify at least some of the workers in the video since it is unlikely that run-of-the-mill employees (or volunteers) would have had access to that room on their own, meaning that at least one of them must have been in the leadership of whatever board or agency counts votes (and it is unlikely that such a person would not have known that everything they did would be seen on security cameras).
 
Oh that is so funny: “... It is difficult to know whether Plaintiffs and their counsel actually believe any of the ridiculous claims they allege or whether this entire lawsuit is designed solely as a fundraising exercise, a talking point, something they can use to bolster their imaginary claims of widespread voter fraud. But, the fact that the Complaint is frivolous, does not mean that this lawsuit is not dangerous to our democracy. Plaintiffs seek nothing less than a court-ordered coup d’état. ..”

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.mied.350905/gov.uscourts.mied.350905.39.0.pdf
 
gnome said:
Video challenged at the moment--what is the alleged impropriety?
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Detailed debunking:
Sterling, the state's voting system implementation manager, said that investigators for the state watched the full surveillance video from Election Day and said those bins of ballots were already there and accounted for earlier in the day, while both monitors and the media were there.

A monitor appointed by the state election board had also briefly left and returned at 11:52 p.m. and another state investigator was there starting at 12:15 a.m. The final ballots were scanned around 12:43 a.m.

So no ballots were illegally counted in secret, there was no "suitcase" of ballots being added into the totals. The clip is misleading and the claims untrue.

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/12/04...lianis-grandiose-georgia-election-fraud-claim
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(It really feels like the 9/11 CT heydays. Maybe pdoh should come back. )
 
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TellyKNeasuss said:
In the "with friends like this, who needs enemies?" category, Sydney Powell's latest court filing in Georgia claims that Dominion changed votes for Biden to votes for Trump:



https://lawandcrime.com/2020-electi...s-from-biden-to-trump/?utm_source=mostpopular
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Here's an update from Marc Elias on this case:

https://twitter.com/marceelias/status/1334939882377138176?s=20

Basically, they realized after being made fools on national TV, "OOPSIE!" and are trying to ammend their complaint alleging that they've been stretched too thin.
 
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