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Allegations of Fraud in 2020 US Election

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acbytesla said:
If Rudy was in fact a "true believer" he wouldn't have said in court after rambling on about fraud and then when asked by the judge "are you accusing fraud", he wouldn't have replied "no". Or later in the same case after going back to his fraud theme being asked again by the judge saying "no, this is not a fraud case". Rudy lies to the public because there is no legal consequence for lying. But won't lie during questioning from a judge.

Now tell me again that Rudy could be a "true believer".
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Rudy Giuliani is a complete mystery to me. A black box. I have no idea what motivates him one way or another.
 
smartcooky said:
Is that anything like the "any day now" when Rudy said he would provide evidence of the Bidens' criminal enterprises in Ukraine?

Is that anything like the "any day now" when Rudy claimed he would provide evidence of wrongdoing from "Hunter Biden's laptop"?


Because we're all still waiting for those "any days" to arrive!
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I'm still waiting for that guy from four years ago who said he had incontrovertible proof that 3+ million people had voted illegally for Hillary Clinton, but was waiting for the right time to release it.
 
Bubba said:
I have an idea...maybe it will all go away if we simply don't acknowledge the fact that Sidney Powell announced today that she has affidavits, witnesses, documents...proving massive vote flipping by Smartmatic software, specifically designed to steal elections, and that patriotic Smartmatic and Dominion employees have already stepped forward as witnesses.
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Or maybe it will all go away when, after a reasonable period of time, she fails dismally to produce any of these affidavits she says she has, or produces some affidavits that contain a bunch of wild claims with no supporting evidence whatsoever.

Bubba said:
What do you think ? Should we pretend she never said it??
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In the circumstances, it would make more sense to presume she's a nutjob working for a paid liar who's in turn working for a malignant narcissist who would do anything to avoid facing up to the fact that he came second at something, unless and until someone actually produces any of this mass of evidence that would, if they could have produced it, have won them every one of the twenty-seven or so lawsuits they've just lost.

In other words, show, don't tell.

Dave
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
Even Tucker Carlson - a man who is so far in the Trump camp he's worked as an unofficial adviser to Trump, and who is so prone to spreading ******** that he won a court case on the premise that the things he says are so far out there that no reasonable person could believe they are factual - thinks that this is bollocks. You might be advised to adopt a more cautious tone when endorsing it. It'll be easier to save face afterwards.
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This is snarky of me, but I bet if you asked random Trump supporters what an affidavit is, many of them wouldn't be able to answer. Come to think of it a lot of Dems wouldn't know either.

I think I know part of what makes people so impervious to when it comes to new information. They hear the lingo being thrown around and it makes them feel dumb. It's an uncomfortable feeling. Rather than be reminded of their ignorance they will reach for the simpler narrative of tribal affiliations. A couple of times I have thoughtfully engaged some family members, almost idly tossing a tidbit of information their way that might just catch hold. An aunt was bitching that Covid-19 deaths were being inflated and for some reason I did not snap at her, just mused that excess death numbers were well over a normal year. It's a sort of improv technique, just roll with whatever comes up and keeps the conversation going. But I'm not always (even usually) successful. I got into it with a lady at the dog park a couple of weeks ago. She's convinced Biden is senile and she really thought that Trump had closed factories in China so stuff would be made in the US. Apparently it sounded good to her so she figured it was already happening. We both were reduced to kind of sputtering at each other and I thought, well that technique isn't really working. Today we talked about fetch.

The only thing this has to do with fraud allegations is that gently educating the people in our immediate circles may put some small dent in this barrier. I know that feeling of zoning out when anyone throws around specialized lingo. "Well what do you do if the witnesses aren't so hot" might be a better answer than trying to explain the rules of evidence. Many will get there on their own if they don't feel like they're being talked down to. I should be talking about this in the de-Trumpification thread.
 
Minoosh said:
This is snarky of me, but I bet if you asked random Trump supporters what an affidavit is, many of them wouldn't be able to answer. Come to think of it a lot of Dems wouldn't know either.

...snip...
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I was surprised to see what passed as an affidavit for at least one of these cases. It was an online form, accessible to anyone, that allowed anyone to fill it in and make any type of claim (that’s not a snarky description it is exactly as it was described in the court hearing) thankfully the judge in that case didn’t allow them to be used as evidence.

So keep in mind when you read “affidavit” it could be something with no more validity than an online poll asking which is the best Enterprise.
 
Minoosh said:
This is snarky of me, but I bet if you asked random Trump supporters what an affidavit is, many of them wouldn't be able to answer. Come to think of it a lot of Dems wouldn't know either.
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It's obviously an affiliate-davit, used when you need two davits to work together, like when lowering a lifeboat...

Isn't it? :confused:
 
I think this idiocy by Giuliani and Powell has two possible explanations. The first is that there's no plan, they're mentally ill, and it will lead to yet more embarrassment for Trump's dog and pony show.

But it's also possible that a strategist (not Giuliani, Powell, or Trump) intends to use this to seed a narrative for future fear-mongering about elections. There's a very good chance this BS will be recycled over and over for many years to come, and the GOP will use it for its voter suppression projects. I think this could be the reason something as stupid as this is permitted to take a place on the public stage. It's consistent with a lack of respect for the people's ability to separate fantasy from reality, but the GOP is the gaslight party, so that's not a stretch.

If that's the case, it remains amazing that the GOP has been this successful in a country that imagines itself a model for democracy.
 
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I thought it was an affy-davy, one of those things that Long John Silver offered to Captain Smollet... they never quite described it, I thought it was some pirate thing.
 
Puppycow said:
Maybe sometime in the future. Much of the tangible damages are likely yet to come. At this point it's still speculative whether their business will suffer because of this, but if it does, then they will have actual evidence that they were in fact harmed.
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if they do suffer.

Even if the claims against them are comprehensively disproven, we all know the GOPers and CTers will still be trotting this nonsense out for decades to come. If you were an election official looking to buy a new system for voting, would you want to buy one that you knew would be the target of every stupid CTer out there?
 
Out of curiosity, was there an impact on Diebold for the bad press and occasional conspiracy theory on their voting machines?
 
The issue here is one between legitimate complaints - “software froze for 10 minutes”, or even “not all scans were recorded” that are evidenced to out and out lies based on nothing. The people making these lies know they are lies as they have no evidence. So it is a very deliberate action to undermine the company’s products based on dishonesty.
 
Darat said:
I was surprised to see what passed as an affidavit for at least one of these cases. It was an online form, accessible to anyone, that allowed anyone to fill it in and make any type of claim (that’s not a snarky description it is exactly as it was described in the court hearing) thankfully the judge in that case didn’t allow them to be used as evidence.

So keep in mind when you read “affidavit” it could be something with no more validity than an online poll asking which is the best Enterprise.
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I’m certain the affidavits they brought were the best voting fraud memes K-pop fans could generate.
 
Darat said:
I was surprised to see what passed as an affidavit for at least one of these cases. It was an online form, accessible to anyone, that allowed anyone to fill it in and make any type of claim (that’s not a snarky description it is exactly as it was described in the court hearing) thankfully the judge in that case didn’t allow them to be used as evidence.

So keep in mind when you read “affidavit” it could be something with no more validity than an online poll asking which is the best Enterprise.
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I thought, to be an affidavit, it had to be signed and witnessed by an official of the court. Wikipedia says that lying on an affidavit is perjury. I don't think a web form could possibly count.
 
Robin said:
I assume that, by the timing, this is intended to give sympathetic officials an excuse not to certify the vote.

It might just work.
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I doubt that it is legally possible for a Secr. of State/County Clerk/Board of Elections/etc. to not certify voting results without stating a supportable rationale for doing so.

I completely fail to see the upside of not releasing any of the evidence that Trump's team claims to have. I do, however, see a downside, so I am interested in what the rationale would be for not releasing any evidence if they really have some.
 
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gnome said:
Out of curiosity, was there an impact on Diebold for the bad press and occasional conspiracy theory on their voting machines?
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Yes, there was an impact.

Diebold Unloads Beleaguered Voting Machine Division

In 2007, Diebold attempted to distance itself from its elections division by changing the name of the business to Premier Election Solutions. But despite the name change, the controversies over its machines continued and the profits the company envisioned when it purchased the business never fully materialized.
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I can't find the article, but a Norwegian paper gave a link to a survey that showed 80+% of Trump supporters believe the election was sufficiently rigged that it affected the outcome :( .

Don't know how many people that is, though, to be fair. Some of the Trump voters may no longer identify as Trump supporters after his defeat. Supporters of strongmen tend to not like them anymore when they are no longer successful.

Darat said:
The issue here is one between legitimate complaints - “software froze for 10 minutes”, or even “not all scans were recorded” that are evidenced to out and out lies based on nothing. The people making these lies know they are lies as they have no evidence. So it is a very deliberate action to undermine the company’s products based on dishonesty.
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This is what I try to tell Trump supporters in various comments threads when they grasp at straws about various small incidents.
 
Safe-Keeper said:
I can't find the article, but a Norwegian paper gave a link to a survey that showed 80+% of Trump supporters believe the election was sufficiently rigged that it affected the outcome :( .

Don't know how many people that is, though, to be fair. Some of the Trump voters may no longer identify as Trump supporters after his defeat. Supporters of strongmen tend to not like them anymore when they are no longer successful.


This is what I try to tell Trump supporters in various comments threads when they grasp at straws about various small incidents.
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Reuters is saying 50% of Republicans believe this. Not sure if that interchangeable with Trump supporter but I am assuming it is given present circumstances.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ged-election-reuters-ipsos-poll-idUSKBN27Y1AJ
 
smartcooky said:
As for Powell, well, she's a bat-**** crazy conspiracy theorist and all around nutcase with no reputation to protect, so who knows?
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Her latest filing yells about various towns in Michigan casting more votes than they have residents.

Except that the towns are in Minnesota. Evidently she couldn’t figure out that “MI” isn’t the same as “MN” (standard postal codes for Michigan and Minnesota, respectively).

Just another day for Trump’s crack legal team. As in the Enron employee who (at a meeting just before the company imploded) in response to Kenneth Lay reassuring them that everything was fine, asked,“Are you on crack? Because that would explain a lot.”
 
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